Exposing PseudoAstronomy

January 8, 2012

Podcast Episode 18: Ancient Aliens Interview with The Dumbass


Episode 18 of my podcast has been posted. This episode is another interview one, this time with “Parrot,” AKA “Dumbass” who has spent a lot of time on his blog and podcast going over many of the claims by ancient aliens proponents.

First, we address some of the broad reasons for aliens to visit us in the past, such as enslavement, a tourist stop, or as a brothel.

The bulk of the episode discusses some of the main evidential claims put forward, including: Pyramids, the “golden flyer,” the Christian Bible, Nazca lines, Face on Mars, a spaceship painting from A.D. 776, and bone calendars from 30,000 years ago.

The next subject we addressed were about some of the people involved in the ancient aliens phenomenon and some of their specific takes. These were Giorgio Tsoukalos, Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval, David Hatcher Childress, and Christopher Dunn.

We wrapped up the ~70-minute interview with a summary of some of the broad reasons for ancient aliens and why people think they came here: argument from ignorance, argument from personal incredulity, making things up, and especially anomaly hunting.

28 Comments »

  1. Stuart, so where do you stand on the matter of earth having been visited by ancient or not ancient aliens? iow, iyo, has this planet been visited by extraterrestrials?

    Comment by Bruce — January 9, 2012 @ 7:09 am | Reply

  2. I eagerly await your answer, unless it is more comfortable for you to continue to sit on the fence, thereby enabling you to continue with your skeptic pose/charade/ruse and poke fun and toss cherries at those who take a stand on either side of the issue.

    Comment by Bruce — January 10, 2012 @ 3:41 am | Reply

    • Some of us have actual jobs where we have many projects due at the same time. I’m on six short papers all due in 5.5 hours. I see no indisputable evidence for ancient alien visitation and until then I assume the null hypothesis.

      Comment by Stuart Robbins — January 10, 2012 @ 10:31 am | Reply

      • You are a glass half-empty kinda guy.

        If you were a glass 1/2 full person, you would cite – where there’s smoke, there’s fire, hypothesis.

        Comment by Bruce — January 10, 2012 @ 12:29 pm

      • And that’s the difference between you and me.

        Comment by Stuart Robbins — January 10, 2012 @ 12:31 pm

  3. No, that is not the difference between us; that is just the other side of the coin you have chosen to take.

    For me, there is far more than smoke; there is fire. There are far too many anomalies to wait for what you call ‘indisputable’ evidence.

    What is one of the purposes/missions of NASA? To find another planet that we can settle, just in case this one becomes war-torn, too hostile, we run out of resources, the sun burns out, etc. Eventually we will find such a planet. Suppose that planet is far earlier in its development than our planet earth. Perhaps there will be more primitive humans there and we are seen flying our flying devices through their skies. Maybe they will sketch them on paper or rock walls. Obviously we will have far greater technological knowledge, knowledge of life, knowledge of universal laws, than the primitives. If we were so inclined, we could set ourselves up as gods, decreeing universal laws, laws of life, laws of society, iow, religion.

    You touched on pyramids in your podcast, yet you did not explain how they were built, what their purpose was, why such similar structures are found all over the planet. Have you explained Puma Punku? Have you explained UFO’s found in cave drawings, ancient astronaut head gear in cave drawings? https://www.google.com/search?q=ufo+cave+drawings&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=SN4MT-gGxe3SAYi27ZEG&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1439&bih=947

    Comment by Bruce — January 10, 2012 @ 6:02 pm | Reply

  4. Hey Bruce,

    I haven’t seen any evidence that in any way stands up to scrutiny, but maybe you’ve got some evidence that I haven’t considered.

    Let’s keep this discussion focused though, one claim at a time. Give me one piece of evidence that most convinces you that aliens visited in ancient times and we’ll discuss it. No sense in talking about all sorts of different claims until we’ve looked at the first from all angles.

    So which aspect of this do you most want to go over?

    Comment by Dumbass — January 10, 2012 @ 6:28 pm | Reply

    • Dumbass, do you have a real name? ( I feel like a dumbass calling someone Dumbass )

      How about we start with cave art/drawings? From all over the world, there is a common thread/theme that runs through ancient drawings; how do you write that off?

      http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

      Then, as an aside, you can try to explain the Tunguska event. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/30jun_tunguska/

      http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/fermi.htm

      Comment by Bruce — January 11, 2012 @ 4:12 am | Reply

      • You can call me Parrot if you prefer.

        Anyway, the fact is that there really isn’t a common thread or theme that runs through these images, unless you’re talking in very wide generalities. Amateurs may look at these images and find very vague patterns, but actual archaeologists who spend their lives studying these images can tell you that they need to be interpreted in the context of the cultures that made them, and while they may appear similar, that’s only on the surface. They are really much different and no expert would confuse one for the other.

        Regarding the Tunguska event, that really doesn’t have much to do with Ancient Aliens so I think it’s a little too off topic to get into here.

        Comment by Dumbass — January 11, 2012 @ 11:20 am

    • Hi Dumbass,

      I think I can make a pretty good case for it myself. I’ve been doing interviews, presentations, taking challenges, etc. and I’d be happy to interact with you in that type of a format, if you’d like. I could also provide you with links to some of the interviews, etc. so that you could pose specific challenges to the evidence and conclusions that I present.

      Let me know if you’re interested.

      Comment by Michael Horn — January 11, 2012 @ 10:07 am | Reply

      • Okay Michael, lay it on me. What’s one of the best pieces of evidence you have that aliens visited us in ancient times?

        Comment by Dumbass — January 11, 2012 @ 11:22 am

  5. P.S. I should say that while the ancient visitations claims are interesting I focus on the still ongoing contacts (70 years) in the Billy Meier case.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 11, 2012 @ 10:12 am | Reply

    • Well, I’m personally not all that interested in arguing about current alien contacts. Alleged contemporary alien visitations are an entirely different matter, with different kinds of evidence and requiring a different skill set in order to analyze them. And even if you’re right that aliens are visiting us today, that doesn’t mean that they visited the Earth in the distant past and made a clear mark on human history.

      So I’m not even going to challenge you about contemporary alien encounters. That’s not where my interests lie, and for all I know you have some valid and indisputable evidence on that front.

      So if you’re not big on the Ancient Aliens stuff, I’m perfectly okay with agreeing that we’re both talking about different things and don’t really have much to say to each other.

      Comment by Dumbass — January 11, 2012 @ 4:37 pm | Reply

  6. Thanks for responding. I would approach this a little bit differently.

    In the material about which I speak there’s a fair amount of information about ancient visitations, encounters, colonizations, who the various “gods” of our idiot religions were, etc. But since we’re speaking about the far distant past, it is indeed hard for anyone to make claims that they have proof positive.

    However, if the information regarding current, ongoing contacts is true and accurate, we would have good reason to examine more closely the claims within it regarding past visitations. And that would be because the best evidence in this case, the higher standard of proof, is very specific information that we can show was verifiably published well in advance of “official discovery” and/or occurrence. If what I’m saying is true, that would indeed establish a foundation of credibility of the source.

    Now I would think that establishing the authenticity and accuracy of a current UFO case would, in itself, trump concerns solely about past contacts. And it’s no secret that the best of the international skeptics have tried to take on the Meier case, with rather disastrous results for them.

    Considering that real contact with extraterrestrials would qualify as the most important story in human history, and considering that the contents, the information from such contacts would be of vital importance for scientists – for all people for that matter -I’d ask you to think about the entire matter. Certainly just pointing you to the claims regarding the past cannot in itself be sufficient to satisfy your core interests.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 11, 2012 @ 5:13 pm | Reply

    • Well, certainly proving that aliens actually exist and are capable of visiting us are two criteria that are necessary in order for there to have been visitations by aliens in the ancient past. Logically, we say these criteria are necessary but not sufficient to prove the case.

      But that’s beside the point. For the sake of the argument, I’m willing to take it for granted that aliens do exist and that they are capable of visiting us. The question is whether there’s any evidence that they actually did so in the ancient past. So far, all the claimed evidence I’ve looked at hasn’t held up to scrutiny.

      So you don’t need to prove to me that aliens are visiting us in current times. For the sake of the argument I’m willing to accept that premise. None of my arguments against the Ancient Aliens theory are based on whether there’s any proof that they exist or are capable of visiting us, so it’s irrelevant to the discussion.

      And for the record, I kind of hope you’re right and that there currently are aliens secretly visiting us.

      Comment by Dumbass — January 11, 2012 @ 6:04 pm | Reply

      • If you accept the idea that extraterrestrials may be visiting us now, without examining any evidence to support it, why wouldn’t you accept the idea that it could have been true in the past?

        And why would someone who may be a skeptic be rather cavalier in accepting a premise that equates to the most important story in human history, again prioritizing impossible past visitations over such startling claims?

        I don’t think that Stuart feels as uncritically accepting of the reality of current extraterrestrial contacts…such as the still ongoing Billy Meier contacts in Switzerland.

        And of course such a dichotomy of views on the part of two skeptics regarding this rather controversial subject is in itself quite worthy of further discussion.

        Comment by Michael Horn — January 12, 2012 @ 10:10 am

  7. Love the podcast, just have one quick correction to make- the ‘smiley face’ crater is Galle, not Gale.

    Comment by John Cody — January 11, 2012 @ 9:05 pm | Reply

    • Yeah, but how do you pronounce it? I would spell the one MSL is going to as “Gayle” going by pronunciation. So is Galle pronounced “Gole” where the “o” is like in “got?”

      Comment by Stuart Robbins — January 11, 2012 @ 9:08 pm | Reply

  8. It’s not about accepting whether it’s possible Michael. A lot of things are possible, that doesn’t mean they’re true. The question is whether there’s any evidence for it.

    Remember, I’m only willing to accept that aliens exist and are capable of visiting us for the sake of the argument, because accepting that premise makes absolutely no difference to the question of whether there’s any evidence that it actually happened in the ancient past.

    Comment by Dumbass — January 12, 2012 @ 2:25 pm | Reply

    • Of course the evidence is required. So I think it would be a good idea for you and I to discuss that and to discuss the specific evidence. You may not be aware of the abundance of such evidence but I can point you to it.

      And while you may say that actual, authentic current contacts make no difference regarding the past, I do have to pass the smelling salts around one more time. Skeptics like Stuart are firmly convinced that there are no actual extraterrestrial contacts – and he and many others refuse to actually look at the evidence, preferring selective dismissal since the prospect of being reduced to scientific irrelevancy, with zero celebrity status, is rather unpleasant and not what he intended when he invested in his education.

      Now, if what I’m saying is true, and not simply for “the sake of argument”, i.e. some silly exercise in mental gymnastics, then I would think that such a reality would supersede any theoretical, speculative debate about contacts in the far distant past.

      So, in the hopes of getting on the same page and either assisting you to have a rather spectacular “ah ha!” moment, or perhaps to close the door on claims of the existence of, and contact with, extraterrestrials, I invite you to focus on this with great clarity.

      Therefore, I’m saying to you, I have scientifically solid evidence that the most important story in human history is occurring NOW on Earth and that it holds answers to many questions, including about the past. I suggest a podcast/interview, etc. to explore this information and determine its accuracy and relevance to these questions.

      Comment by Michael Horn — January 12, 2012 @ 2:40 pm | Reply

  9. Well, certainly if it’s true that aliens are visiting us today, it doesn’t matter if they ever visited us in our ancient past. But that’s entirely off topic. This whole thread is about the evidence for ancient alien visitations. That’s the topic that I’m interested in talking about.

    If you’re only interested in talking about current alien visitations, then I don’t think we really have anything to say to each other here. It’s a different subject matter, one that I’ve never written or talked about. I’m not the go-to guy to challenge on that front.

    Comment by Dumbass — January 13, 2012 @ 6:06 am | Reply

  10. Michael, yet again you seem unwilling to address a topic you said you were (“I think I can make a pretty good case for it myself.”), reverting yet again to only wanting to talk about the Meier material. As DA/Parrot said, that is not the topic. Further comments on this thread from you (or Bruce) about ANYTHING other than evidence for ancient aliens will not be posted. Have you ever considered running for public office? You’d be good at deflecting (and that’s a rhetorical question, just an answer to that will not count for getting through).

    Reporter: What do you think about zoos receiving public funds?

    Politician: I’m so glad you asked that because I love puppies and puppies just highlight the family. I support the traditional family because families are what built America and families support each other. I want to be President so you can all be part of my family!

    Comment by Stuart Robbins — January 13, 2012 @ 7:02 am | Reply

    • Stuart or Parrot,

      Regarding ancient aliens, you should do a post or podcast, after some considerable research, on the matter of the legend of Atlantis; myth or historical fact.

      Comment by Bruce — January 13, 2012 @ 11:39 am | Reply

      • That’s a really good idea Bruce. I’ve already done a lot of reading on this subject. I know about Plato’s dialogues and what he said about Atlantis. I also know about the claims of the Bimini Road, and I know that there are several other places that have been claimed to be Atlantis.

        I also know of the claims of Atlantean descent of the mound builders and the Egyptians.

        I’ll certainly be happy to put out a podcast on this sometime in the future. Is there any particular claim that you’d be interested in me addressing?

        Comment by Dumbass — January 13, 2012 @ 2:19 pm

  11. Parrot/Dumbass, You may want to read Otto Mucks,”The Secret of Atlantis” . http://www.scribd.com/doc/16206238/The-Secret-of-Atlantis-by-Otto-Muck

    According to Billy Meier – “Otto Muck – spirit-form of Plato reincarnated –

    A German physician by the name of Otto Muck has calculated that Atlantis was destroyed at exactly 7:00 PM on the 6th of June, 8,498 BC and exactly as the Plejarens described it. He was only wrong about the date by exactly 1,000 years and he wrongly assumed that it was purely a cosmic catastrophe. The Plejarens are aware that he first received and wrote about the legends of Atlantis 2,322 years ago for posterity because he is the reincarnation of Plato. Mr. Muck has referred to planetoids as coming from out of the “Adonis Group”. He considers the Adonis Group as being all of the cosmic bodies known as planetoids.”

    Comment by Bruce — January 14, 2012 @ 7:23 am | Reply

  12. There is an interesting article discussing the Ancient Aliens TV show and how it works to convince certain of the viewers of its accuracy.

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2013/ancient-aliens-how-they-hook-you-with-their-dubious-claims-and-absurd-models/

    Comment by Graham — September 10, 2013 @ 4:37 pm | Reply

    • Interesting, though unsurprising. I barely made it through a half hour of the first episode before I gave up.

      Comment by Stuart Robbins — October 5, 2013 @ 11:08 am | Reply


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