Exposing PseudoAstronomy

January 19, 2010

Asteroid Apophis and the Michael Horn Claims of Billy Meier


Introduction

I was recently (last week) interviewed yet again on The Conspiracy Skeptic podcast in what I thought would be a short (20 minute) talk about the Russian press release of asteroid Apophis and the AAS press release that the star T Pyx may be 1,000 parsecs away instead of ~3500 parsecs away which would be bad news for Earth if/when it goes supernova. I encourage my readers to listen to that episode for more information, especially the introduction about asteroid Apophis as I’m going to be skipping over much of that in this post.

Anyway, coincidentally, just two nights after the interview went live, Coast to Coast AM had Michael Horn, the “Authorized American Media Representative” for Billy Meier (a Swiss UFO guy), talk about Apophis and spew out some fairly blatant pseudoastronomy that I felt I should address. Note that this post is NOT about Billy Meier and his alleged UFO contacts and predictions, nor Michael Horn’s media-loving frenzies. It is ONLY about what Michael Horn stated on the January 14, 2010 episode of Coast to Coast AM.

Update: I have posted a follow-up to this entry, “Follow-Up on Apophis and Michael Horn / Billy Meier Documented Claims.”

Added (11/09/2011): One minor correction has been made.

Overview of Asteroid Apophis

I’m going to be very brief here in my overview because I go into a fair amount of depth about this Earth-crossing asteroid during my interview. Apophis was discovered in 2004 and preliminary calculations gave it about a 1 in 40 chance of hitting Earth in 2029, and if it didn’t hit then, a possibility of its orbit being altered in 2029 by passing through a “keyhole” region of space. If it were to pass through this keyhole, then its orbit would be altered in such a way that it will hit Earth in 2036.

Needless to say, in the 5 years since this discovery, the asteroid has been observed hundreds if not thousands of times and its orbit has been better-defined. As a result, the latest odds of an impact in 2036 are now estimated at around 1 in 300,000. Definitely not worth worrying about, but it does raise awareness to the fact that one day there will be an asteroid that will hit Earth that is large enough to do serious damage – wipe out a city or small country, for example.

A slight side-note is a discussion of the Torino Scale which is an integer (0-10) and color-coded (white, green, yellow, orange, red) scale developed in 1995. It is a scale of classifying how dangerous an asteroid is to Earth. The 0-10 integer value is based upon the size of the asteroid and probability of impact with 10 (red) being a dinosaur-killer. When it was first discovered, Apophis was rated a Level 4 (yellow), which is defined as, “A close encounter, meriting attention by astronomers. Current calculations give a 1% or greater chance of collision capable of regional devastation. Most likely, new telescopic observations will lead to re-assignment to Level 0. Attention by public and by public officials is merited if the encounter is less than a decade away.” It has since been down-graded to Level 0.

Enter late December 2009, when the head of the Russian space agency told reporters (at least in the English translation) that they were assembling a team to put together a mission to nudge Apophis away from impact. The story – again, at least in the English translations – seemed to imply the Russians thought it would impact in 2036 (“by 2032” was the quote, but I address that in my interview) despite the latest odds by NASA and other researchers. In other words, this statement by him added much fuel to the fire of conspiracy theorists.

Overview of Billy Meier and Michael Horn

I said I wasn’t going to get into this, but I think there does need to be a very brief background into these two personages. Billy Meier is a Swiss farmer who is fairly old – born in 1937 he turns 73 this year in February. Meier made a name for himself in the UFO community by producing alleged UFO photographs and video that is very widely regarded as fake, even among many if not most UFO researchers. He claims to be in contact with the aliens, who are from the Pleiades, and are named the “Plejarens.”

Michael Horn, as stated in my Introduction, is the “Authorized American Media Representative” for Billy Meier. In other words, his English-speaking spokesman who very strongly pushes Meier’s story. He has a well-documented habit of demanding time on television, radio, and podcast shows to advocate Meier’s story, including claiming that people agree with him when they don’t.

As I said, I really don’t want to get into these two right now because it would be a VERY lengthy blog post – but I thought I needed to introduce the players. Episode 85 of The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe has a fairly lengthy discussion of Meier and Horn, starting about 30 min. 30 sec. into the episode.

Michael Horn’s Statements About Asteroid Apophis

In Hour 4 of the January 14 broadcast of Coast to Coast AM, Horn states several things about Apophis, though there are really only 3 or 4 main ones that I want to address.

He starts out stating the case that Meier predicted (through information from the Plejarens) that Apophis would be discovered and would impact Earth well before the asteroid was found by scientists. I could not find the sample documentation Horn stated was on his website, though admittedly I did not look too hard. However, from his statements on the air, it seems as though Meier did not actually name the object nor provide any additional material, but he stated that it would be called “The Red Meteor.” For the sake of this post, I will assume that Meier actually did make this prediction, that there would be a “Red Meteor” that would hit Earth in the future.

Update: I have done additional research and made a follow-up post about this “prediction”: “Follow-Up on Apophis and Michael Horn / Billy Meier Documented Claims.”

The next claim is that if it hits in 2029 or 2036, it will hit “right in the heart of Eastern Europe – Russia, Ukraine, … Germany … you have millions of people dead, tremendous releases of lava and gases, a wall of sulfurous waste starts coming across, the sky is darkened” (7:20-7:30 into the episode). This is another claim that I’m not going to dispute, though I’ll mention that a “release of lava and gas” would not happen unless this ~270-m-wide asteroid were to hit near an active volcano.

Anyway, the first claim I want to address occurs at about 10:00-11:45 into the program. The jist of what Horn states has to do with trying to do a post-hoc analysis/justification of why the alleged Plejarens call this object “Red.” He says he was contacted by an Austrian physicist who linked it to the Torino scale. Quoting the other person, Horn stated, “‘This could be’ – I’m not saying with certainty … – ‘their way, by naming it this, of giving us the ultimate clue we need’ – which this translates to, ‘this is going to hit your planet.’ … This just blew my mind. … Here’s the kicker: The scale wasn’t even developed until 1995!” (George’s response was, “Jeez! He was way ahead.”)

Hopefully, dear reader, I don’t have to point out how much of a retrodiction this is. But, just to name a few reasons: Meier could have picked “red” because historically it’s a color of destruction. He could have picked red because many people think that Planet X is red. He could have picked red just on a whim. He could have picked red because it’s a “danger” color and most scales use red for bad things – just look at the dashboard of your car. In short, entertaining this idea of the Torino Scale as the reason why an alleged alien allegedly told Meier that an object that will hit Earth is called “red” is one of the largest stretches of correlation that I’ve heard. (Source: Common sense.)

The second claim I want to address occurs at about 12:30-13:15 into the program: “Skeptics will say, ‘Well, you know, he’s calling it a “meteor” why isn’t he calling it an “asteroid?”‘ And here’s the last piece of the puzzle that I found! According to something called the Division of Planetary Sciences of the American Astronomical Society, Apophis is a ‘good match’ for a rare type of stony meteorite known as a Type LL Chondrite. So they gave Meier a clue in the first part of it – ‘red’ – and they told him not to call it an asteroid, but a meteor. And here, in totally unrelated information …, they are corroborating this.”

To be blunt, this is one of the most ridiculous confusions/entwinings of nomenclature that I’ve heard. An asteroid is a rocky body in space. A meteor is when it’s in the atmosphere. A meteorite is when it hits the ground. Saying that something is an LL chondrite has nothing to do with where it is – on Earth, in our atmosphere, or in space – but has to do with its mineralogy and iron content. Saying that an asteroid is a “close match” to a type of meteorite just means that we know what the spectra of an LL chondrite is and that Apophis matches that more closely than it matches other known types of meteorites that were once asteroids. Trying to claim that because the DPS states it’s a close match is justification for why Meier calls this a “Meteor” instead of “asteroid” is playing nonsensical word games. (Source: Dictionary.)

Oh, and just for your information, LL chondrites (Low-iron, Low-metal) comprise the smallest fraction of the most common type of asteroids (chondrites) at about 10-11%, meaning they are about 8-9% of all asteroids out there. So Apophis had about a 1 in 10 chance of being an LL chondritic asteroid. (Source: “Planetary Materials,” J.J. Papike ed. (1998).)

Final Thoughts

Again, without getting into the broader Meier/Horn claims, just talking about Apophis, claims, you can see fairly obvious (and poor, in my opinion) attempts to retrodict a non-event by playing word games and drawing causal links that an elementary school student would question. The best estimates today are that Apophis, as its orbit and the body itself are better understood, has a continually decreasing chance of going through the keyhole in 2029 that would send it on a collision course in 2036. As I state in The Conspiracy Skeptic interview, the Russians may have been mis-quoted, they may have been using Apophis’ close-miss as a wake-up call that the world should have in place a plan to deal with an incoming asteroid – one that really will hit us.

88 Comments »

  1. I cannot understand why people are still claiming that Billy Meier, A one armed disable farmer from Switzerland, faked UFO photos. The photos, metal samples and sound samples have all been checked by top scientist and have been clasified as REAL.

    Also why would a man who “faked” ufo photos carry on with a UFO “story” after being shot at 21 times.

    I think this article proves nothing. It just adds to the dis-info regarding the most important contact case of our time. Forget the photos. Its not about photos of space ships its about us humans on earth and our survival, self responsibility and the teaching of truth, teaching of spirit, teaching of life.

    If anyone really wants to know the truth about Billy Meier and his PROVEN contacts with humans from the Plejares system then you have to do your own researching, thinking and reading and not take lame articles like this as truth.

    Peace

    Comment by Stephen Moore — January 21, 2010 @ 2:58 pm | Reply

    • Stephen – As I stated in the article, my purpose here was not in any way to address actual UFO-contact claims by Billy Meier. If you would like to critique the content of what I posted in terms of the particular two recent claims by Michael Horn, then please do so. Otherwise, this is a complete non sequitur.

      Comment by astrostu206265 — January 21, 2010 @ 4:23 pm | Reply

      • First Claim

        Does it matter what colour the Meteor is or even what it is called. Surely Billy Meier’s information deserves serious contemplation and looking into. After all if someone told you that next week a large red rock from space was going to hit your home would you take note of what they said or would you find some excuse to dismiss the information just because the person who told you the rock was red or the person called it a red rock? Maybe you would be sitting in your home that very day and suddenly a red rock does it your home. What would you think. Possibly “hmmmmm, how stupid was I to worry about weather the rock was red or the name of the red rock and not to listen to the warning that man gave me.”

        Second Claim

        Again arguing over weather a rock coming towards our planet is a meteor or a asteroid or even a lump of ice is not important or productive. If the Plejaren and Billy call it a meteor and earth humans call it a astroid really doesnt make any difference to the cold hard fact that this meteor/astroid is on its way here and if we, the earth human does nothing accept try and contradict a man (Billy) who has nothing to gain from putting this information to us then there is a big possibility the event will happen.

        Finally

        I quote you.
        In your reply you said “As I stated in the article, my purpose here was not in any way to address actual UFO-contact claims by Billy Meier”

        But you did

        I quote you again.
        “Billy Meier is a Swiss farmer who is fairly old – born in 1937 he turns 73 this year in February. Meier made a name for himself in the UFO community by producing alleged UFO photographs and video that is very widely regarded as fake, even among many if not most UFO researchers. He claims to be in contact with the aliens, who are from the Pleiades, and are named the “Plejarens.””

        Why did you feel the need to add this into your article if you did not want to address actual UFO-contact claims by Billy Meier. This would give a none informed reader of your article the thought that Billy Meier is a fake and a fraud. Which he certainly is not.

        The truth that if the UFO community excepted Billy Meier’s claims as truth they would all be out of a job and a career making money from nonsense stories of silly lights in the sky and “Aliens” walking around on earth and in governments.

        Regards

        Comment by Stephen Moore — January 21, 2010 @ 5:36 pm

      • Stephen – I felt the need to at least give some background information on Meier so that uninformed readers would have some context for what I was talking about. I used the term “allegedly” because it has NOT been proven, but that possibility remains open. You’ll note I did not use the term “fraudulent, “fake,” “hoax,” or other such terms.

        Comment by astrostu206265 — January 21, 2010 @ 5:45 pm

      • OK,

        You could of pointed your readers to the FIGU website at http://www.figu.org or to another website http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk where your reader could make up their own minds.

        These two websites would give your readers far more truthful information and background to Billy Meier then what you said.

        They can even look at some of the information at my own website http://www.ufofacts.co.cc

        Comment by Stephen Moore — January 21, 2010 @ 5:56 pm

  2. I do love it when “scientists” (or are they just skeptics) say things like:

    “Meier made a name for himself in the UFO community by producing alleged UFO photographs and video that is very widely regarded as fake, even among many if not most UFO researchers.”

    …and of course make such generalizations, not even bothering to name these esteemed “UFO researchers”. Did our friend here bother to do any research himself, such as is nicely presented right here:

    http://theyfly.com/Final_Proof_Hasenbol.html

    Now here’s a beauty. I’m capitalizing the words I’m emphasizing, since there’s no bold italics, etc. available:

    “Meier COULD have picked “red” because historically it’s a color of destruction. He COULD have picked red because many people think that Planet X is red. He COULD have picked red just on a whim. He COULD have picked red because IT’S A “DANGER” color and most scales use red for BAD THINGS – just look at the dashboard of your car. In short, entertaining this idea of the Tornio Scale as the reason why an alleged alien allegedly told Meier that an object that will hit Earth is called “red” is one of the largest stretches of correlation that I’ve heard.”

    Wow, where do we start?

    Well, let’s get planet X out of the way, so to speak, sicne Meier wasn’t talking about that at all. Now, apart form the fact that this supposedly scientific fellow is now presuming what Meier COULD have been doing, has anyone else noticed just how he is – MAKING THE POINT?

    Just how “large a stretch of correlation” is it really when our genius friend here reiterates for us just how and why red IS used as a danger signal, a UNIVERSAL danger signal? So are we to understand that because this warning IS so clear, unambiguous, easily understood by almost every man, woman, child and maybe animal on Earth that it should be dismissed, ignored, ridiculed?

    Don’t the esteemed scientists at SETI say that they WANT ETs to communicate with us in a “universal language”, like mathematics? And might not some intelligent people of very good will just maybe want that communication to be CLEAR to the many human beings who DON’T understand the language of mathematics? Do fossilized brains like the one residing in our good friend’s cranium here really provide the necessary thinking abilities to protect humanity from even such a clearly marked danger?

    Okay, on to this next bit:

    “An asteroid is a rocky body in space. A meteor is when it’s in the atmosphere. A meteorite is when it hits the ground. Saying that something is an LL chondrite has nothing to do with where it is – on Earth, in our atmosphere, or in space – but has to do with its mineralogy and iron content. Saying that an asteroid is a “close match” to a type of meteorite just means that we know what the spectra of an LL chondrite is and that Apophis matches that more closely than it matches other known types of meteorites that were once asteroids. Trying to claim that because the DPS states it’s a close match is justification for why Meier calls this a “Meteor” instead of “asteroid” is playing nonsensical word games.”

    Ahem, it wasn’t the COMPOSITION of the object that I was trying to emphasize when I quoted the scientists about Apophis, it was the fact that it would be regarded as a meteorite. And, as our good friend here also notes, “A meteorite is when it hits the ground.” Pause. Think. One more time, they called it the Red Meteor, not the Red Comet, Asteroid, etc. That’s because someone’s trying to tell us it presents a DANGER because it’s going to HIT THE GROUND. The one we live on.

    As for this:

    “Again, without getting into the broader Meier/Horn claims, just talking about Apophis, claims, you can see fairly obvious (and poor, in my opinion) attempts to retrodict a non-event by playing word games and drawing causal links that an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT would question. The BEST ESTIMATES TODAY are that Apophis, as its orbit and the body itself are better understood, has a continually decreasing chance of going through the keyhole in 2029 that would send it on a collision course in 2036.”

    Oh, how I do hope that there indeed are some elementary school students who will not only have the common sense to recognize red as synonymous with danger but to run away from people who can so confidently presume a “non-event” and who would forbid them from considering “causal links” in this universe of ours – which operates unfailingly according to the LAWS OF CAUSE AND EFFECT.

    Discerning the causal relationships is indeed what human beings must learn to do. And should the “best estimates” change tomorrow, should other factors such as gravitational pull, accidental impacts or deflects with other objects, etc. alter those estimates…let’s hope that it isn’t too late to take the advice of the single most prophetically accurate source in human history.

    The overeducated and under intelligent, those who also possess little to no common sense, cause great problems for ordinary human beings, the planet, etc. They are the self-appointed arbiters of truth and reality who are used to getting away with the kind of pompous slop that our here friend spews forth.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 21, 2010 @ 3:48 pm | Reply

    • Michael –

      First, you can use bold, italics, etc., as the comment boxes accept basic HTML. Second, I am not going to address any of the general UFO claims in my reply as I stated that several times in my post that was/is not my intent.

      Third, I find your tone fairly insulting. I attempted to be fairly polite in my post, though I’ll admit the “elementary school student” wasn’t as objective as it could have been. Saying that I have a “fossilized brain” in my cranium, or calling me “overeducated and under intelligent,” does not help your cause. It is simply a very obvious ad hominem attack that does not address the evidence and makes you look childish.

      As for “red,” I did not have an issue with the idea that “red” is a danger color. Rather, it was you trying to make even that seem like a prediction of the Torino Scale. It was not a prediction of the Torino Scale, it was simply a danger color.

      For the LL chondrite “meteor” claim, you again have missed my point. In the interview, you at least seemed to imply that when DPS was saying Apophis is a close match to an LL chondrite that DPS is actually “confirming” (your word) that Apophis should be called a “meteor.” It’s not. And even in your reply here, you state, “it would be regarded as a meteorite.” Yes, if it were to hit Earth, when it impacts, it would be a meteorite. Right now, it is an asteroid. If it were in the atmosphere, it would be a meteor. One could say that they should have called it the “red meteorite” if they wanted to emphasize that point. However, I was never going to make an issue out of the terminology until you did in the interview. So many people use “asteroid/meteorite/meteor” interchangeably that I would have chalked it up to that or even a poor translation, but it was the linkage you made to the LL chondrite type of meteorite supposedly confirming that, yes, Apophis is going to hit that I drew issue.

      Comment by astrostu206265 — January 21, 2010 @ 5:33 pm | Reply

  3. […] to go back and look through. As of when I’m posting this in the evening of January 21, 2010, Michael Horn himself has posted a response. After this post goes up, I will make my own reply to his comments. Leave a […]

    Pingback by Follow-Up on Apophis and Michael Horn / Billy Meier Documented Claims « Exposing PseudoAstronomy — January 21, 2010 @ 5:15 pm | Reply

  4. I’m sorry but I actually am not sure of who I am addressing here, I don’t see your name and I’ll be glad to use it.

    Yes, I can understand that you feel insulted. But I notice that you weren’t shy about spreading second hand, unsubstantiated and actually completely disproved claims about Mr. Meier and his evidence, i.e. insulting him. And you don’t even take a moment here to provide any documentation for those slights.

    You’ll notice that I’m not shy about taking people to task who don’t know what they’re talking about. And I won’t claim to be an expert where I am not.

    Now since you state that you’re not going to address “any of the UFO claims” and then go on to impugn the honesty and truthfulness of someone whose claims are quite central to various aspects of this matter, not only do I find that quite shabby and amateurish, I find it irresponsible.

    I’ll be clear, I am not a UFO enthusiast and I actually care little about UFOs. That Meier’s UFO evidence can be clearly and easily perceived as authentic requires only the “looking through the telescope” that almost all of the skeptics that I know simply will not do. Perhaps you should be an exception and proceed to:

    http://theyfly.com/Final_Proof_Hasenbol.html

    …where you will be walked through a brief but unassailable presentation of impeccable evidence that Meier’s UFOs are indeed quite real and certainly not models.

    You can learn how the fellows at IIG so badly flubbed the “debunking” of Meier’s evidence (that they’ve had 9 years to assemble!) that they had to retract their claims of hoax, here:

    http://theyfly.com/newsflash91/Top_Skeptic_Fixed.htm

    …and more evidence, plus expert commentary substantiating the authenticity of Meier’s evidence is here:

    http://theyfly.com/photos/photos.htm

    I could provide a lot more but I doubt that you want to see a page full of links to start our conversation with. And actually it is a conversation that I’d prefer to have. You think you know what this is about and you proceed to criticize my own perceptions, and those of Austrian physicist Anton Hahnekamp, as well as astrophysicist David Froning (http://theyfly.com/PDF/Scientific%20Experts.PDF) but you do so without adequate knowledge or preparation.

    As I said, a conversation is indeed my goal. But this time you will have to get up to speed so that you’ll understand why it is that I am willing to care far more about the predictions of one Billy Meier than the prematurely optimistic prognostications of our scientists at NASA.

    Don’t think for a moment that I am unaware of how outside of the scope not only your but many people’s understanding and paradigms are. Of course if it’s all a colossal hoax I sincerely invite anyone to disabuse me of it. So far, in the 30+ years I’ve been investigating it, I have found no indication at all, to the contrary, every bit of it checks out.

    I welcome you participation if you wish to deal with the facts and the evidence. And you’ll have my full respect if you do so, starting with substantiating the claims that you made regarding Meier.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 21, 2010 @ 6:36 pm | Reply

  5. P.S. I think that we would all agree that it’s more than fair to ask this:

    Assuming that this man is indeed predicting that Apophis is going to hit the Earth with certainty, why should we listen to him? Just what track record of predictive accuracy does he have, etc.?

    If that is indeed a question that you would offer, then I will respond with where you can begin to find and evaluate the documentation. All you have to do is ask.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 21, 2010 @ 6:49 pm | Reply

  6. Michael Horn

    I have read your link site and I’m afraid these ‘Plejarens’ are not telling you anything. ‘Various disasters are going to happen at some time’ ?? Why do you believe them or trust them. Genuine question. The information about Stonehendge says nothing neither does the info on the pyramids. If these Plejarens have your best interests at heart then why are they giving you (us) such generic palp as opposed to useful information??

    Comment by Steve — January 22, 2010 @ 6:38 am | Reply

  7. Steve,

    Time demands that I be blunt with no intention to be offensive. I don’t what level of scholarship you possess but there is so much specific, prophetically accurate information documented at my site that a comment such as yours would indicate to me either extreme laziness or, well I don’t know what.

    I don’t want to over link here, and you could start almost anywhere on my site to actually learn something, but I suggest that you read the information linked below and see if the lights go on for you a bit and provide you with some…”useful information”:

    http://theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm

    http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 8:55 am | Reply

  8. Michael, your red meteor prophesy completely lacks anything but generalities. Any opportunity to enter into the record specifics before they were known by astronomers is suspiciously absent. Given this is a total swing and a miss, why should we now believe you that these other “prophetically accurate” items are worth looking at? One only has so much time in a day. I just find this typical of UFO believers. Claims are made. The hard evidence doesn’t materialize. We’re then told to go look at something else. That falls flat too. Hands are waved at other so-called mountains of evidence. It just seems to me your Mescaloids could have removed all doubt. I’m sure there’s a fallibility free rationalization to explain that one too.

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 10:51 am | Reply

  9. Kamamer,

    Again, for the sake of (an attempt at) brevity. You are making too many inaccurate assumptions, such as that:

    Any opportunity to enter into the record specifics before they were known by astronomers is suspiciously absent.

    I am a UFO believer

    There is no hard evidence

    I have anything to do with drugs, etc.
    ……………….

    Extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence. The fact that you are ignorant of that extraordinary, documented evidence, freely and abundantly available, is typical of too many people who also like to cast unsubstantiated aspersions, such as you do.

    We have copyrighted proof as early as 1991 that Meier was warned. Earlier proof exists and is presented but we don’t claim that it appeared in copyrighted form.

    The fact that there is so much copyrighted, documented evidence of Meier’s prophetic accuracy is the foundational reason why this, clear plain warning should be heeded.

    Now, since you have conflated your ignorance of the case and its evidence along with your snide remarks towards me, allow me to state the following as plainly as I can. I have the facts on my side and am more than well prepared, should you wish to actually debate me in some public forum, to show you for a fool. That opportunity will likely not arise since you are expert on nothing and, I can guarantee, you will not undertake the necessary education in this matter, which would also require you to remove some of the religiously held skeptical beliefs that you hold.

    And you may wish to also try to attack astrophysicist David Froning for his positive assessment of the Meier case, since no doubt you imagine yourself to be of equal caliber to him. Search my site, you’ll find him.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 11:05 am | Reply

  10. P.S. I know that I probably should have simply said, “Don’t come to a battle of wits half prepared” but I did want to spell out for you just a bit.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 11:07 am | Reply

  11. Michael, again your red meteor stuff makes no specific predictions beyond information that is already known. If Meier said in 1981 the Mescaloids told him about a close encounter with an asteroid in April 2029, well, that would be something. Beyond that you offer nothing concrete and no reason why one should waste their time heeding your “no no go look at this stuff over here” urgings. What you’ve presented about the red meteor is vague hand waving stuff that will only convince the true believers. What can you document that Meier knew before hand that isn’t simply a vague generality anyone could pull out of their pie hole? I’m not sure how I can make that more clear to you.

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 11:21 am | Reply

  12. (Where did I claim you have something to do with drugs?)

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 11:23 am | Reply

  13. I don’t know why you are having such trouble with this…but you are.

    Obviously you are not a scientist, that’s okay. I referred to David Froning because, in addition to him having shared the stage with me during my presentation at, and sponsored by, the Biltmore Hotel in L.A. for its corporate clients, he’s a scientist of extreme accomplishment and reputation who does possess the request abilities, including scientific curiosity, to have “wasted his time” looking into the scientific validity of the Meier case.

    As a matter of fact, he considers Meier as being “advised” by some scientists possessing knowledge certainly equal to his.

    So pardon me if I don’t take anymore bait here from anyone who has obviously waded into a pool that is way over their head form the start. Read or don’t read, that’s up to you. FOrtunately the Russians and at least one Austrian physicist have pursued the information.

    The people alleged to be in contact with Meier are, as is easy enough to find out, the Plejaren. Mescaloids is a term associated with mescaline, which perhaps was also something you didn’t know. So I will take no offense and not misinterpret your intention.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 11:35 am | Reply

  14. Again, Michael, back with a bunch of hand waving and no example of Meier knowing specific information about Apophis before scientists. Sorry, who did you hope to convince besides the faithful?

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 11:56 am | Reply

  15. Okay, you’re clearly out of your league here, I understand. You’d like to save face, I understand that too.

    Nonetheless, I’ll answer your rhetorical question, indicative of your inattentiveness and amateurish approach to things far beyond your reckoning:

    David Froning: At the time, Dr. Froning had already spent 25 years as an
    astronautical engineer at McDonnell Douglas in highly classified military defense
    and, in 1979, became interested in Meier’s accounts of Plejaren starship travel, which
    mentioned tachyon propulsion. Dr. Froning found Meier’s account of tachyon propulsion
    (which was only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of
    theoretical physicists), and his calculations for above light speed travel to be amazing. In
    1983, he was pursuing his Quantum Interstellar Ramjet idea (JBIS vol. 33, no. 7, July
    1980; AIAA 81-1533, July1981; IAF-85-492, October, 1985) and plugged in his Quantum Ramjet performance equations, assuming: a given starship density, vacuum energy conversion efficiency (in transforming positrons and electrons within the quantum
    vacuum into photons), and vacuum energy conversion scales of distance of the order of
    the Compton wavelength. The resulting vehicle acceleration enabled achievement of
    almost light speed in about 4.3 hours and deceleration from light speed in about 4.3
    hours. Meier said that the elapsed time during the “hyperspace jump” took only several
    seconds. Thus, trip time between the Pleiades star cluster and Earth with Froning’s
    slower-than-light Quantum Ramjet Drive plus a hypothetical tachyon drive would be 8.6
    hours, which was within 20% of the Plejaren trip time reported by Meier. But, while
    Froning’s calculations were based on many arbitrary assumptions, and in no way proved
    the truthfulness of Meier’s account (since it was a theoretical system he was working on,
    only time will tell as to which are correct) Froning was somewhat startled that his
    arbitrary flight time computations were within 20% of the flight time mentioned by Meier.
    Regarding the Meier material, Dr. Froning also publicly stated that, “My colleagues and I
    may have made breakthroughs in our understanding of possibilities and ways for
    traveling faster than light from Billy Meier’s accounts of his encounters with the
    Plejarens.” He also said, “If what this Meier is saying is just a hoax, he’s being cued by
    some very knowledgeable scientists. I’ve only discussed this Meier case with scientists
    who are fairly open-minded about interstellar flight, but I’ll tell you, the majority of them
    think it’s credible and agree at least part, or sometimes all, of the things talked about by
    the Pleiadians (Plejaren)”

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 12:05 pm | Reply

  16. I do apologize if the formatting is flawed but it’s the content that counts.

    There may be other people who eventually read this page and may benefit from the information, a small sampling of which is provided here. It’s just a bit unfortunate that you need to have such an upbraiding instead of welcoming a new learning experience at this stage of your life:

    Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA’s Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA. Analyzed Meier’s photographs in 1981: “I find the photographs themselves credible, they’re good photographs. They appear to represent a real phenomenon. The story that some farmer in Switzerland is on a first name basis with dozens of aliens who come to visit him … I find that incredible. But I find the photographs more credible. They’re reasonable evidence of something. What that something is I don’t know.” Malin also said, “If the photographs are hoaxes then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax. How did he do it? I’m always interested in seeing a master at work.”

    Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world – a system of scanning electron microscopes costing $250,000. Lieut. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.): One of the original investigators in the Meier case. In 1979, he sent Vogel crystals and metal samples Meier had received from the Plejarens. Vogel reported, ”When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.” Of another metal sample containing nearly every element in the periodic table, Vogel stated, “Each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.” X-ray diffraction and spectral analysis revealed both Thulium and Rhenium. “Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type”, said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, “A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures – very unusual.” At 2500 X he found that the sample was, “metal, but at the same time … it is crystal!”

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 12:11 pm | Reply

  17. Ummm. That’s very nice. I can see you put a lot of work into the Penski file but again, what does it have to do with Apophis? If you want to convince astronomers Meier and his friend Moff Tweeluk of the Mescaloid Federation have long had critical information about Apophis, you need to show Meier was told something specific. Meier only appears to know specifics after scientists published the specifics.

    Address that point, please. K?

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 12:32 pm | Reply

  18. Well, Gramps, I’d like to entertain you but I have important things to do. So chew on these for awhile, ALL of which are DOCUMENTED to have been published BEFORE “official” discovery or occurrence. Again, since you have some difficulties in comprehension, that word is BEFORE.

    Sorry to YELL here but you do seem to be hard of hearing, among other things:

    115th Contact, October 19, 1978: Io the most volcanically active body in the solar system, also that Europa was ice encrusted, Jupiter had rings

    Corroborated March 5, 1979: NASA’s Voyager 1 probe discovered the rings of Jupiter

    Corroborated March 12, 1979: NASA announced “most important discovery of the mission” that Io is the most volcanically active body in the solar system and that Europa is covered in ice—five months after Meier published this information.

    29th Contact, July 7, 1975 Venus information: surface temperature, atmospheric pressure, composition and percentage of gases in atmosphere, wind velocities, in addition to actual origin of Venus and other details that may or may not yet be known

    31st Contact, July 17, 1975 Venus information: coloration and thickness of cloud cover, crater-covered landscape, mountains of varying heights, etc.

    Corroborated: October 1975 and August 1976, confirmed by probes from the USSR and USA respectively.

    Corroborated: February 1981; USGS [US Geological Survey] was producing a topographical map of Venus which, as discovered by the investigative team, further confirmed the details Meier had published five years earlier.

    45th Contact, February 25, 1976:
    Semjase (Meier’s extraterrestrial female contactor) warned him that our extraction of petroleum and natural gas from the Earth, the damming of waters and construction of huge cities are major factors contributing to increased earthquake/volcanic activity.

    Corroborated: June 27, 1990, in The Good Life newspaper (now defunct), Los Angeles: “Earthquakes, Oil Interact”.
    Also: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29015900/

    Reservoir dam may have triggered China quake
    Scientists say finding suggests human activity played a role in the disaster

    July 8, 1976 Mars information re discovery of water, primitive life forms and hostile nature of environment, scooped NASA’s discoveries of July and August 2008…by 32 years

    1978, 1992:

    In his book, Existing Life in the Universe, Meier stated that there are two small planetary bodies outside Pluto’s orbit; he called them Trans-Pluto and Uni, and said scientists will discover them in the not-too-distant future.

    Corroborated: July 3, 2001 and October 7, 2002, the BBC reported that scientists have discovered a new planet beyond Pluto.

    In the same book, in 1978 Meier predicted the forthcoming discovery, and subsequent naming, of a comet that would be called Toutatis. In this same book he gave additional, subsequently verified information about a number of comets.

    • 251st Contact, February 3, 1995:
    This contact contains startling information regarding technological developments such as hybrid warriors created by mixing human and pig DNA. People will have biochips attached to their nerve endings, and Meier warned of ominous biochipping with links to Deep Space Platform satellites and supercomputer.

    Corroborated: Human–pig DNA experiments have begun in the last several years; people are starting to get “chipped”.

    Still speculative: Creation of half-human/half-machine beings, clones and androids; discoveries that conclusively confirm existence of previous human life on Mars; rectification of the “ageing” and “aggression” genes; Plejaren warnings of deep-impact scenario, and need for a defence system for incoming objects.

    The 5,100 Year-Old Iceman: While the information on the 5,100 year-old iceman is not astronomical in nature, it is another ironclad example of Meier publishing very unique, specific, accurate information well in advance of “official discovery”. Meier is told of the Iceman before discovery is made but, more importantly, what caused his death 5-10 years before “official” discovery http://theyfly.com/newsflash91/5100_year_old_man.htm

    Meier: “The climate warms ever faster, whereby the snowfall is also absent ever more frequently in the deeper sites, while the Earth’s polar ice masses, as well as the glaciers melt ever faster, which leads to this: that by the year 2100, in some cases, the water of the seas will rise up to 160 centimeters (5’3″). Forceful natural changes have become unstoppable…” (Orignally from Ptaah, November 18, 2006.)

    Corroborated: ScienceDaily (Dec. 8, 2009) — A new scientific study warns that sea level could rise much faster than previously expected. By the year 2100, global sea level could rise between 75 and 190 centimetres, according to a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    Meier (2008): “…in only 45 to 50 more years the Earth, all countries and humanity, will be confronted with 200 million environmental refugees.”

    Corroborated: (CNN) – “A new kind of refugee is on the rise. And by 2050, there could be as many as 200 million of them…”

    MEIER: Regarding melting of glaciers from 1964: “Glaciers melt away worldwide just as do the masses of ice of the Arctic and Antarctic. The world’s climate rapidly warms which leads to monstrous revolutions in the climate which bring with them great waves of heat and cold, blasts of fire as well as droughts, floods, snowstorms and hailstorms.”

    CORROBORATED: Swiss glaciers melting faster than ever before: study
    ZURICH (Reuters) – Switzerland’s glaciers shrank by 12 percent over the past decade, melting at their fastest rate due to rising temperatures and lighter snowfalls, a study by the Swiss university ETH showed Monday.

    Steven, out of respect for the space here, I will give this link where more incontrovertible evidence of Meier’s foreknowledge of specific, corroborated information can be found:

    http://theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm

    Also, in the Prophecies and Predictions section, Meier’s earliest published information, starting in 1951 and 1958, is both painfully specific and accurate.

    As you can see, the Meier case is really not that much about UFOs, despite the fact that his “advisors” clearly come in them:

    http://theyfly.com/Final_Proof_Hasenbol.html

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 12:38 pm | Reply

  19. BTW, is this REALLY the legacy you wish to leave, i.e. one of a foolishly inadequate, silly, pseudo-scientist who is simply put to shame by his own stubbornness and infantile attempts at face-saving, one who resorts to trying to belittle those who tower above him in knowledge, integrity, truthfulness and their contribution to humanity?

    If so, I guess you’ve succeeded.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 12:43 pm | Reply

  20. Mmmmm. Still nothing documenting Meier and Moff Zweebink of the Mescaloid Federation knew anything specific about apophis before scientists.

    Are you going to simply paste the full contents of your site into this blog?

    Comment by kamamer — January 22, 2010 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

  21. It is inconceivable but evident that a human being would place his ego, career, and his own life above his own well being and the well being of his fellow humans.

    Scientists and know-it-alls will never admit to being wrong. If they do they loose face within public opinion. So they falsify documents to make themselves look good and deceive their fellow humans.

    I agree with Michael Horn here.

    I bet none of you people on here (except Michael Horn) have ever met Billy Meier, shook his hand and had a conversation with him. I would bet also that none of you (except Michael Horn) have spent hours, days, weeks, years looking into all the information about Billy Meier and the 1000’s of pages of documents. Also further still I bet you none of you (except Michael Horn) would be honest with yourselves when the penny drops and you realise that Billy Meier and what he has spoken about, in some cases, years before they happened would say YES this is the real deal.

    The human ego, the human know-it-all mentality, the human dishonesty and human ignorance in the face of the truth and danger leaves alot to be desired.

    Comment by A Human Being — January 22, 2010 @ 1:34 pm | Reply

  22. People should do research before assuming that they know all of it. If Kamamer wants the information he seeks tell him to do the research. Based off what Kamamer said anyone can generalize that a meteor can strike earth. So why didn’t Kamamer do it? Hell i wouldnt put my reputation on the line to make such a prediction because I cannot see it myself. Here’s the key thing debunkers use to make Meier seem less credible: he hoaxed his photos his videos are fake etc. Open your mind and actually read Meier’s material. It covers a wide range of different subjects than just ufo. There’s more proof in his writings than just googling “billy meier hoax” or “billy meier ufo photos”.

    Comment by George — January 22, 2010 @ 5:31 pm | Reply

    • George – I’m not going to speak for Karl, rather address your comments in the broader context of my entry. The blog entry here actually shows the research I did in to this particular claim. The follow-up entry goes through all the documented evidence of this claim and shows that Meier did not actually predict Apophis in any clear way. In addition, it seems as though you are conceding that Meier did hoax/falsify some of his alleged evidence. If that is so, then why should one continue to believe someone about the same topic which they have been shown to have falsified?

      Comment by astrostu206265 — January 22, 2010 @ 6:09 pm | Reply

      • Probably because his material makes much more sense than what is available. I’m not a religious person but the spiritual teachings Meier has transcribed definitely makes sense. I do not doubt him one bit. What I previously stated was that amateurs will more likely google Meier and what comes after Meier is typically the word “hoax”. I reiterate again, that his writings covers vast areas not just UFO’s and prophecies. Have you taken the time to read anything of his? I doubt it. But to you know-it-alls produce me prophecy and prediction and maybe you’ll change my mind.

        Comment by George — January 22, 2010 @ 6:19 pm

      • George, if you bothered to click the link I gave, you’ll see that I actually did do about 2 hours of research into this claim, reading through several pages of Meier’s work. No, I have not read all of it – I have no desire to. I did the research to address this one, specific claim.

        Comment by astrostu206265 — January 22, 2010 @ 6:25 pm

    • So why didn’t Kamamer do it? Hell i wouldnt put my reputation on the line to make such a prediction because I cannot see it myself.

      Stuart made such a prediction on my podcast. He stated quite clearly an earth/asteroid collision is a matter of when, not if. And how do you know I’ve never made such a prediction or I’ve not made other predictions based on deduction.

      Anyway, Meier’s pre-2004 prediction is utterly indistinguishable from a vague TV psychic prediction and Horn keeps failing to demonstrate any positive evidence for why we should abandon the null hypothesis.

      Comment by karl — January 22, 2010 @ 6:45 pm | Reply

  23. AHB, Thanks for the kind and true words. And it’s all the more a pity that the person demeans himself by resorting to the most obvious sign of the childish, intellectually and ethically bankrupt, i.e. the use of cheap ridicule in place of facts and thoughtfulness.

    Ridicule is a weapon holstered by those who are well equipped to use it but who have the maturity and restraint to not do so.

    The blog’s author falsely assumed that he had the credentials, intellect and stature to attack something that he also falsely assumed was as insubstantial as his own character.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 5:51 pm | Reply

  24. Michael, the author of this blog has a degree in astrophysics – I think he has the “credentials”.

    Comment by bcbwilla — January 22, 2010 @ 6:12 pm | Reply

  25. I will let George speak for himself but as the person here who indeed has researched all available evidence – including the testing done by actual experts and scientists – I can tell you that Meier NEVER hoaxed ANY evidence. And of course he didn’t need to.

    Careful consideration of the information and evidence here should be sufficient for any intelligent, objective, thinking person to easily comprehend that:

    http://theyfly.com/Final_Proof_Hasenbol.html

    And, since the predictions that I have indeed documented, quite amply, were relayed to Meier in many cases by Ptaah, and since Ptaah specifically stated in response to Meier’s referring to Apophis, “Ptaah: It’s size is about 350 metres.

    What you are saying regarding the great danger that the Red Meteor represents to Earth: the scientists
    know about it…”

    …we have the chain of predictive information starting with the poetic version in 1976, the conversation from 1981, as verifiably published in a German book in 1991 and in an English book in 2001, years before “official” discovery. So the only question really is the one that exists in the skeptics’ minds, i.e. “Why should we believe this?”

    The answer to this question is, you shouldn’t. You should think and reason through, and evaluate the abundant, specific, prophetically accurate information, some of which has already been provided here, and draw your own conclusions. If you are either unable or unwilling to understand the clear foundation of credibility that warrants such serious consideration, as well as recognition of the indeed prophetic, specific warning, then so be it. However, it makes it no less true.

    And do note that it isn’t Meier assailing and ridiculing anyone who is trying to warn people here, it’s the supposed “experts” and know-it-alls who reveal their bias and inadequacies in their willingness to shoot first…and never really ask the right questions.

    As for having a degree in astrophysics, so far it just shows the democratization of science, two people of such vastly different levels of intellect, character and accomplishment can have similar degrees, i.e. David Froning and the author here. And since Froning’s credentials include decades in “highly classified military defense” it shows that there are indeed stellar level scientists who prefer to still learn something and not sit around going “nyah, nyah” when confronted with truths that shake their paradigm of reality.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 22, 2010 @ 6:29 pm | Reply

  26. How can one justify writing an article which debunkes a man on just 2 hours of research on one specific subject. That surely is not scientific, compitent or researching. You know nothing of Billy Meier’s back ground, his life, his other documents or anything. You have just looked at a specific subject, with your mind made up before you even started looking that you was going to write some “cow dung” that you was going to debunk him.

    Also you (the author of this “cow dung”) have not provided any evidence whether its scientific or in the realm of Astrophysics to back up your article. Now, what does that put accross to anyone reading this page? You dont know what your talking about, You have made it all up, You just want to make yourself look cleaver, Your Ego is bigger then your reasoning and compitents and I could go on.

    Until you provide credable evidence to back up your claims, like Michael Horn has extensively done here, you article is truly “cow dung”. Your article would be thrown out of any scientific study, research or debate and even a university study simply because you cannot prove, provide any evidence to back up your claims.

    Also it comes accross that you wish your viewers to vote and comment on your articles like it is some big deal and you are trying to prove something to everyone else. Is this some big game to you to boost your insecurities or lack of confidence.

    I dont care if my comments here get 100 thumbs down. What difference does it make.

    Comment by A Human Being — January 22, 2010 @ 9:14 pm | Reply

    • How can one justify writing an article which debunkes a man on just 2 hours of research on one specific subject. That surely is not scientific, compitent or researching. You know nothing of Billy Meier’s back ground, his life, his other documents or anything. You have just looked at a specific subject, with your mind made up before you even started looking that you was going to write some “cow dung” that you was going to debunk him.

      You miss the point. If Joe says Port Johnson is the capital of Ghana, Frank can simply look up Ghana and see if Joe’s claims check out with the known facts. It does little good to then caterwaul Frank has not spent 14 years researching everything Joe has said about geography.

      Horn made some specific factual claims. Stuart responded to those specific claims and found them lacking.

      Comment by kamamer — January 26, 2010 @ 7:12 am | Reply

  27. Contact Reports volume: 4 (Plejadisch-plejarische Kontakberichte, Gespräche, Block 4)
    Page number(s): Unknown
    Date/time of contact: Saturday, the 10th of October 1981, 3:15 AM
    Translator(s): βενιαμιν
    Official/unofficial translation: Unofficial
    Authorised/unauthorised by FIGU: Unauthorised
    Date of original translation: Unknown
    Corrections and improvements made: N/A
    Contact person: Quetzal

    http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_150#Contact_Report_150_Part_7

    Comment by A Human Being — January 22, 2010 @ 10:04 pm | Reply

  28. So to get this straight: Meier only spoke about the name “Apophis” and the 2029/2036 dates after Apophis was discovered by astronomers, and before that, he only provided vague stuff like “some asteroid/meteor/whatever will hit at some time in the future (or maybe it won’t really hit)”? That’s lame, at best. If that’s really the case – which it seems to be after what I’ve read here and on the linked sites about this topic –, I’d say no-one who has still a little bit of skeptic thinking in his mind will ever conclude Meier (or his alleged alien sources) actually predicted Apophis.

    Vague “prophecies” like that (just like Nostradamus’s, for instance) are worthless since you can make them fit to any suitable event some time in the future, decades, millennia, millions of years later, if you want to. And “true believers” always seem to want to.

    Comment by cimddwc — January 23, 2010 @ 4:04 am | Reply

  29. Michael Horn

    Again I have read you links but as with the replies to Kamamer and Astrostu comments you may be missing the point. Know one is saying the information is wrong or hoaxed is just isn’t saying anything useful. Apart from “waking up” what is mankind supposed to do with ANY of this information. I’m sure these beings are advanced enough to know all of this stuff so why are they not advanced enough to give us some information we can act upon apart from “you are stuffed earthmen”. What are you doing in response to all this ‘useful information’ What should any body do? If I told you you will crash sometime does that make me a prophet? even if I have been right before, what use is the information??

    And please write little bits of poignant stuff and not reams of -and then they said – stuff it doen’t get anywhere. By the way I beleive your stuff I just don’t see the use of ANY of it.

    Comment by Steve — January 23, 2010 @ 6:31 am | Reply

  30. Steve,

    I really want to thank you, not so much for what you agree with me on but because your essential question, what can we do about this, really gets to the heart of the matter…in a number of ways.

    Truly, for the wise among us, there’s no more need to laundry list the irrefutable evidence of Meier’s predictive accuracy and that of the Plejaren. So let me address your question this way, some of which may even not be disagreed with by the hardest skeptics.

    The very core of the information, the teaching in the Meier material is about complete and total personal self-responsibility for everything in one’s life, starting with each and every thought, feeling and action that one has and takes.

    Our world has been under the extremely negative, debilitating and enslaving influence and control of illogical, delusional, false religion(s) for thousands of years. Likewise, religion goes hand in hand with the other element of distraction and destruction, i.e. politics. These two elements, individually as well as together, along with their manifestations such as irresponsible over-breeding, i.e. overpopulation, account for, are causal manifestations of, most of the problems that humanity has faced and that, today, present even more huge problems, some no longer surmountable.

    But what are we supposed to do about an incoming object that will, according to the information that I have presented, hit our planet with 100% certainty, unless a successful worldwide effort to deflect it is undertaken? That is the question. And the answer is that WE must, before it’s too late, directly and openly contact, inform and pressure OUR governmental and space agencies to immediately join in a cooperative effort, such as the Russians called for.

    Now, we all the love the idea, I’m sure, that we can simply click on/click off any little thing that bothers us, that there’s an easy solution for every problem and…that somebody else is going to do it for us. After all, what does MY little voice matter in something…not so little? Well, we go back to that seemingly simple, obvious and boringly unexciting idea of taking responsibility for each of our thoughts, feelings and actions. Boring? Heck, just HOW are you supposed to DO that anyway?

    Now it’s probably a safe bet that no one here is under the control of any of the organized religions. But that’s no assurance that you are actually unconditioned by, or completely immune to, the effects it has had on mass consciousness, or how it may have unconsciously affected you growing up…even in a non-religious home. So do know, that in addition to everything else, we are NOT offering ,or in favor of, the equally illogical and disempowering notion that someone else, some “god” or…extraterrestrials are going to – are SUPPOSED to – do it for us.

    If you don’t see an “answer” in what I’ve said so far, then go back to the basic points, which are that WE are responsible for what happens to us here, in our individual and, therefore, collective, lives. If you are confused, feel powerless, don’t see an “answer” then, sorry, but you’ve accepted, bought in to exactly what both religion and politics has been drowning (even) you in all your life.

    It doesn’t take an extraterrestrial, or a Swiss “farmer”, for US to see, understand and/or act upon the situation. In fact, a cooperative effort to deflect Apophis, supported by you and me, is something that we actually CAN do to avoid at least one of the disasters coming our way. Other things, such as some of the mega-quakes, tsunamis, sinking of land masses, storms, etc., are no longer preventable, which is another matter and I won’t go into it here.

    Of course there will be people who overlook the essentials of this and say, “Oh, THAT’S what these supposed ETs are trying to tell us? I could have told you that but so what, blah, blah, etc.” Well, that’s not ALL they’re “trying to tell us” but we are so far in the hole that we have to have the basic operating principles of responsible human life thoroughly reinstalled – and completely activated and online – in each and every possible human, especially considering what (and what else) is coming our way, largely through accumulated gross human ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and irresponsibility.

    This should also, therefore, be read as reinforcing the perception that turning our power over to others just because they have some “credentials”, initials after their name, etc. is equally ridiculous…as the babbling, infantile content of our resident expert’s posts here plainly confirm. However, he’s not alone. Having been puffed up by their own delusions, and the support of sycophants, any number of so-called “leaders”, “scientists”, “experts”, etc. are equally overrated, depended upon, etc., as well as their often being incapable and unqualified to truly lead, think, respond, innovate, etc.

    As you may discover, there is a section at my site called the Spiritual Teaching – as antithetical to anything religious as you can imagine. It is also a consciousness related teaching, all of which is focused on the purpose of self-responsible thinking, feeling and acting – and the great depths to be plumbed in those areas. ALL of Meier’s work is absolutely devoid of beliefs and a model of rational, scientific, logical thinking…but also equally devoid of the defensiveness and rigidity of “skepticism” which, as we see time and time again, functions as a religion that seeks to fit everything it examines into its framework, most noticeably when taking something as out-of-the-paradigm but SOLIDLY substantiated as the Meier contacts and approaching it as, “OF COURSE we already know this is a bunch of bunk. Now let’s PROVE that” as opposed to simply trying to find out what the TRUTH is, wherever that may lead.

    MORE than enough out of me. Really. There is nothing I’m arguing for except that each of us, right here, right now, start the process of reclaiming our responsibility and the accompanying personal power. Specifically, using the topic under consideration as the task at hand, come to your own reasoned conclusion about the reality of Apophis being a 100% certain hit, as stated by Meier and his friends. Based on your own conclusions as to the credibility and accuracy of the source, act or don’t act accordingly.

    By laundry listing information, and letting you know where you certainly can find more of it, I have done all that I can to contribute to your process, as I see it.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 23, 2010 @ 9:10 am | Reply

  31. Michael

    Your points point to an underlying problem. You imply that academic assessment is invalid. This is quite correct as academia is in itself a limited mental paradigm. It tends to assess concensus and finds difficulty with paradigm shifts, even within it’s own fields. Secondly the governments that you are trying to convince rely on concensus to maintain social stability i.e. their power lay in concensus and not individual diversity. By the comment “reclaiming our responsibility” you are really implying “reclaiming our individuality”. But joining the concensus brings power wealth and security. Asking people to forgo these benefits is a big ask and has been called for for thousands of years. So presumably your main point is “the time is now”.

    Comment by Steve — January 25, 2010 @ 5:21 am | Reply

  32. To be precise I wouldn’t want to make a blanket statement that academic assessment is necessarily invalid, as it would be inaccurate. Of course it needs to be said that it isn’t automatically correct either.

    Why aren’t the skeptics skeptical about…academia and science? After all, the definitive word, the last discoveries, haven’t been spoken and/or made by science, nor taught by academia. And it’s a safe bet that we could go over all of the various peer reviewed, published scientific papers, and “final discoveries” and find that more than a few absolutes were later questioned, updated, augmented…maybe even discarded and replaced. That’s life and science too.

    That certainly isn’t to say that academia is, by definition, something not to be trusted. It’s just that new and great discoveries aren’t necessarily, exclusively made by people entrenched in academia, as history demonstrates. And I think you’re correct in what you’re saying about the difficulty in making well founded paradigm shifts. This can be said for individuals and organizations, governments, sciences, etc.

    Human knowledge is a rather puny matter. We are still at the stage that we hurl combustion engine powered tin cans around in a limited area of our solar system and call it space travel. And when Meier comes along – I don’t say “someone like Meier” because he’s quite singular – out come the know-it-alls masquerading as scientists to thrill us with their foolish theories that simply are demolished by the facts, about which their ignorance is monumental.

    When Meier – in 1978 – specifically foretells not only the discovery of Toutatis but that it will be NAMED Toutatis, and when this happens in 1989…nary a words from these geniuses. When scientists ask for a message in a universal language and we get the Red Meteor correlated to the Torino scale, numbers and colors…nope. That’s not good enough. All those movies you see about scientists working so hard to find and decipher cosmic clues, to detect “intelligence” attempting to contact them, well the poor bozos can’t seem to detect it when it’s spelled out in a language that’s so simple…even a scientist should be able to understand it.

    Arrogance, rigidity, self-importance…funding. Whatever, to hell with the human species, we know better and unless and until WE are the ones that them thar “aliens” talk to…it didn’t happen.

    Thank goodness that an Austrian scientist hasn’t lost his curiosity and actually appears intelligent enough to see the obvious.

    And to his credit David Froning made the remark about Meier being advised by some “very knowledgeable scientists”. You can be sure he wasn’t talking about the pseudo-scientists in the cult of skeptology.

    As for reclaiming our individuality, no, that isn’t a qualitative accomplishment necessarily. One can be quite the individual but dumb as a rock, prejudiced, violent, etc. Individuality then is not synonymous with self-responsibility, though I’m sure that combination isn’t rare. It may be more axiomatic to say that those who are self-responsible have reclaimed individuality as well.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 25, 2010 @ 12:00 pm | Reply

  33. Michael If you contemplate the meaning of this statement from one of the ‘ancient prophets’ on your own thefly.com site you would get everything. Including the ‘humans are the cause’ claims that are made on that site. Your profits are trouble makers. They use some facts to gain your trust, don’t.

    “The air will no longer be able to protect the earth and its life from the sun’s heat and fire, for the air will be a curtain full of holes.”

    Do you get what they are taking about?

    All the other disasters are a consequence of this one fact.

    Comment by Steve — January 26, 2010 @ 5:45 am | Reply

  34. That should say prophets, sorry no pun intended

    Comment by Steve — January 26, 2010 @ 5:46 am | Reply

  35. Steve,

    There’s a new translation that goes even further regarding the atmosphere:

    http://theyfly.com/Atmospheric_Collapse.htm

    …now if only we have the eyes to see, ears to hear…and the intelligence to act.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 26, 2010 @ 8:38 am | Reply

  36. Michael

    It’s not ‘oxygen collapse’ or anything to do with co2 it’s magnetic field collapse. Like I said, don’t trust these alien prophets they are using a few facts and predictions to gain your trust. Shame they predicted Redoubt (victims zero) and not Haiti (victims 200,000 min).

    Comment by Steve — January 27, 2010 @ 5:55 am | Reply

  37. It’s not a one or the other option.

    As for magnetic field, etc.:

    Ptaah:

    …For decades now he has been under the steady, greatly enhanced influence of artificial electro-magnetic waves, or rather oscillations, which greatly exceed the normal, planet-related measurements and are generated by Man’s own thoughtlessness. As a consequence, he is now, and has been for some time, incapable of applying and relying on his magnetic sense. Hence, he can no longer recognize, grasp and perceive many items and events in nature in the manner that animals are able to, although their magnetic sense is increasingly harmed also through the irresponsibility of mankind on Earth. Birds and animals, for instance, are guided by their magnetic sense during their annual migrations or flights from one region to another when they frequently traverse many thousands of kilometers…
    (More at http://www.theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm)

    You also have it backwards as to who to trust; I’ve found the Meier material to be the single most impeccably accurate source of information. You’re simply not even slightly familiar with the the volume of such information or you’d probably be…crying.

    I recently corresponded with Seth Shostak of SETI, after having spoken with him for about an hour on the phone. His response to to some specific points was so disappointingly…dumb as to be depressing. Unfortunately most people have no idea of the magnitude of the actual problems we face, as our government officials, scientists, so-called leaders, and others are so compromised, incompetent, bought off, etc.

    The Meier information is simply so vast in scope, so preemptively (or prophetically) accurate that it’s staggering. And it’s effectively hidden in plain sight where it’s safe from being discovered by the legions of know-it-alls that abound and who are so undeservedly impressed with themselves.

    There’s a person who is doing lots of “unofficial” translations that shed a light on just how much in-depth information Meier has indeed published over the decades:

    http://www.myspace.com/billymeiercontactreports

    http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=386805075

    It’s a very safe bet that Meier was informed about Haiti, as he was about the Indonesian tsunami, etc., and as he is about other events yet to come.

    I am simply being patient, as sooner or later you will look at your little warnings about who to “trust” and have a bit of an epiphany…hopefully.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 27, 2010 @ 8:31 am | Reply

  38. Michael

    “Therefore the sun will burn the earth, and afflict human beings with the black corrosion, causing many to die. The air will no longer be able to protect the earth and its life from the sun’s heat and fire, for the air will be a curtain full of holes. Thus the sun’s burning light will consume the human being’s skin and eyes, and consequently, they will lose their eyesight, or die. Lakes and oceans will bubble and foam like boiling water, and rivers will dry up, and cities will be buried.”

    I just don’t get what it is about this statement that you don’t get. There is only ONE thing that protects the Earth from the Sun.

    Comment by Steve — January 28, 2010 @ 6:21 am | Reply

  39. AND

    “For decades now he has been under the steady, greatly enhanced influence of ARTIFICIAL electro-magnetic waves, or rather oscillations, which greatly exceed the normal, planet-related measurements (this is true) and are generated by Man’s own thoughtlessness.(this is NOT)”

    Comment by Steve — January 28, 2010 @ 6:44 am | Reply

  40. It’s not an either or situation. The destruction of the ozone, the magnetic imbalance, etc., etc. are all contributing factors to the manifestations we see and will see. And, contrary to your specific objection, it IS indeed human irresponsibility, and especially all being rooted in overpopulation, which has caused and will continue to cause the disastrous events and environmental changes.

    Meier began pointing this out in 1951, in 1958, etc. For starters:

    http://theyfly.com/lost/sfath.prophecies.1951.htm

    http://theyfly.com/lost/meier.prophecies.1958.htm

    And this wealth of information sits largely unnoticed and ignored by the phony know-it-alls who seek only to be “right” and to find someway, always, to profit while humanity be damned.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 28, 2010 @ 10:24 am | Reply

  41. […] Meier and Horn until I heard Horn on the Coast to Coast AM show and then did my original post here. Based on everything I’d heard about Horn, I gave it about a 70% chance that he would find my […]

    Pingback by Another “The Conspiracy Skeptic” Interview – Update on T Pyx and Apophis (Concerning Billy Meier and Michael Horn) « Exposing PseudoAstronomy — January 28, 2010 @ 11:24 am | Reply

  42. With an increasing human population and a decreacing amount of trees, respectively rain forests there comes a point where the Oxygen level in our atmosphere becomes smaller and smaller.

    This is logical and you dont need a scientist, politician or even a “ET” to point this out. Thinking alone should bring this reality to the forefront of a human mind.

    With over 7.5 billion humans on planet earth and a ever decreacing amount of Oxygen there WILL be a point where life starts to suffocate. With the combustion engine which burns fossil fuels which creates pollution and uses Oxygen to burn the fuel the problem rises even more so.

    Until us humans take responibility of our own thoughts and actions and stop pussy footing around arguing who is right and who is wrong and how much money we can make NOTHING will be solved for the better. Us earth humans through our irresponsible, uncontrollable breeding like rabits has caused all the problems we face today and will continue to face in the near future, only worse.

    Comment by A Human Being — January 28, 2010 @ 4:43 pm | Reply

  43. So many points to answer

    1)to Human Being

    “overpopulation…decreasing trees…reducing oxygen levels” The entire human population of the planet will fit on a 50 square mile island i.e. 10×5. Try the maths. The effect of human population on oxygen is negligible. The o2 consumption is not the issue neither is ozone (it does take a scientist, common sense doesn’t work in this and many scientific cases)

    2) to Michael

    “destruction of the ozone, the magnetic imbalance”. The destruction of the Ozone is embedded in the 1980’s and is not the cause of the “solar burning” mentioned or tectonic activity. Do follow this bit carefully. The magnetic decline not only causes the solar burning issue but also the tectonic instability (tsunamis earthquakes and volcanic). This is NOT a human issue, we are the victims not the cause.

    As a consequence the volcanic, tsunamis and earthquake prophecies are meaningless as they are as inevitable as the coming of Christmas. There will be earthquakes …tsunamis… volcano yes there will… a lot. (yes enough to make you cry).

    Michael, I have known this stuff for 15 years now and no Apophis won’t hit in 2026, all this destruction will be over by 2020. Banda Ache, China (Sitchuan) Pakistan, Haiti… is just the start.

    Michael if you would like to make a prophecy (which WOULD assist me) when is the Pacific Tsunami going to strike The month would be good but the year would be OK. I just want to see if it correlates with when I think.

    But drop the humans are to blame. Yes we are idiots but that does not inherently make us the cause. Leave humans alone and give me that one Pacific Tsunami date. I think it will be in ….. you first!

    Comment by Steve — January 29, 2010 @ 5:33 am | Reply

  44. Steve,

    It just won’t wash to try to be “smarter” than some seriously informed folks who’ve spent almost 70 years trying to get through to think-headed humans who…”know better”.

    When you put an ever-increasing number of consuming-excreting organisms in a finite space, with continuous degradation of the environment-atmosphere, it’s a simple and observable fact that the organisms will eventually be drowning in their own waste as well as effectively killing each other and themselves off. See also: http://theyfly.com/On_Overpopulation.html

    The environment can neither produce nor repair itself at a pace anywhere near to accommodating the rapid overpopulation. The plain fact that human beings actually want to argue and rationalize their way deeper into the obvious pollution, degradation, un-sustainability of the environment is amazing. Human beings are now the proverbial frog in the water…who are also turning the heat up on themselves through their irrationality.

    If the microcosm of the world, one’s personal home, was being degraded and polluted as obviously as the outer world, what sane individual would not take action to stop it?

    As for taking a scientist to understand the effect of oxygen, do some thorough searches and you’ll find the information from the Plejaren/Meier on all this.

    The solar burning may be one thing, the ozone destruction another but…why are we splitting hairs? As far as human cause of tectonic instability, of course it’s connected. Though Meier’s information about the extraction of petroleum and natural gas as connected to earthquake was the first I read about it, I found later confirmation from scientists about it. And the connection between dams and earthquakes is now acknowledged too.

    Again, any species with a tiny bit of intelligence would respond to the threat to its home, its environment by erring on the side of caution. Instead these ill thought out arguments that are simply designed to try to avoid dealing with truly overwhelming conditions that have indeed been brought about by irresponsible human behavior far more than the naturally occurring events.

    As for Apophis, honestly, your confidence is not any assurance to to me. I again defer to the single most accurate source I a aware of…and I allow my attention to be drawn to this question: How is a simple Swiss man not only so impeccably accurate but WHY is he (and are they) putting this emphasis on Apophis?

    Re the tsunami, I don’t know the date. I assume the Plejaren do, and perhaps Meier also. On predicted events like this they do not give the date in advance – a word to the wise should be sufficient. But like everything else in a world of short attention spans and the worship of money above all things, we are left to our own devices, to take or not take personal responsibility.

    People may want to say, oh that’s a cop out, they should tell us and PROVE that it’s true, etc. But a thinking person will go through the existing documentation showing Meier’s prophetic accuracy (and that of the Plejaren) and conclude that there’s a REASON to pay attention, to take the warnings seriously and to ACT in advance to minimize damage.

    However, you won’t find that level of simple wisdom in the Church of Skeptology, nor even among many mainstream scientists.

    Al I can say about the NW event is that there has been some activity in that area and that time will tell (or perhaps you will first!). One thing is for certain, if and when that event does happen, the usual, useless handwringing, etc. will occur with human beings of earth still none the wiser.

    Really, why should any more advanced beings bother with stupid creatures like us?

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 29, 2010 @ 11:32 am | Reply

  45. You should find this excerpt interesting from http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=386805075:

    20. Due to the irrationality and irresponsibility of the genetic opponents, it will be that a lot of genetic progress for all humans, animals, and plants, as well as waters and air, and even for all of nature, will be prevented for many years, even though life could be prolonged by centuries through genetic engineering and just through the genetic manipulation of the person, by what means his health could be so stabilized, namely in a few decades, that he would almost never get sick.
    21. Also plants, fruits, and vegetables, as well as other food products, could already be so genetically altered in a short time for the welfare of humans that ample benefits would arise from it, but the irresponsible, irrational and, thus, the gene-negating ones will work against this with lies, deceit, and fear, by what means the actual successes of genetic engineering will also have to wait a long time for themselves, for when the first actual successes are achieved, from which the people will benefit – often not even knowing that their food or medicines are genetically engineered and are only actually useful and healthy because of this.
    22. But concerning your other question:
    23. It will be the year 2002 before a genetic attempt will officially become known, with which plant and animal genes will be brought together.
    24. About this, we have acquired probability calculations, which show that the whole thing will report itself in Japan, in the sense that the genes of spinach plants will be transferred into pigs.

    This person has translated many of the previously unavailable transcript that were only in German. It would serve scientists and skeptics alike very well to begin to familiarize themselves with the veritable treasure of information.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 29, 2010 @ 2:08 pm | Reply

  46. Michael
    That was a lot.

    There are two different issues here. There is the state of human culture and secondly magnetic and tectonic instability (and apparently Apophis). I am sure humans are making a mess of the natural world (mostly trying to stay fed, warm and dry) but others clearly acting like over confident idiots which is where all the moral issues come in. The second issue is the magnetic and tectonic stabilty (and apparently Apophis). My point is that the two issues are NOT related. Prostitution (an issue from thefly.com) does not cause earthquakes and greed does not cause asteroids. “You humans are building cities which are causing earthquakes” no we are not, the average pressure of a city over it’s area is 10 psi, not even enough to collapse a subway.

    Separate the two issues. What is causing the magnetic instabiltiy? (which is leading to tectonic instability). Extraction of petroleum and building of dams? Considering the magnetic field has collapsed before http://www.iceagenow.com/Magnetic_Reversal_Chart.htm or http://franklinhu.com/earthmag.html suggests its not a human cause.

    We are making a ‘bit’ of a mess of Earth but that is not the main and immediate problem (neither is Apophis). Think about it. You humans are greedy and you are going to get hit by an asteroid (huh!). Your cities are too heavy… and you use petroleum and gas and store water. (give me a break) and there is too much prostitution (well thats pinned the issue hasn’t it).

    If you don’t know and can’t work out the cause of periodic magetic instability then fine…. join the amoral majority, we are stuck too.

    And look at this from your ref.

    “Quetzal:
    117. Several factors are to be mentioned:
    118. On the one hand, a meteorite fell to the Earth and exploded high over the area of the two cities, which would now actually be designated as larger villages.
    119. This led to devastating destructions of both cities, triggering a massive earthquake, by which the earth was torn open – like in Petra – and by underground volcanic activity, small and larger chunks of sulfur were flung high and across the country, which also naturally caused much disaster, and by this – as also by the exploding meteorite – many people were killed.”

    At which stage was man supposed to stop this. Build lighter cities?, stop drilling for oil?, stop prostitution?

    Oh except

    Quetzal:
    “120. The remaining part of the total destruction was caused by the megalomaniac and crazy God of the Hebrews, an extraterrestrial who had his headquarters deep under the pyramid of Giza.”

    I would find him if I were you. Why do you inherently assume that extraterrestrials are benevolent especially when they are SO judgmental? There was a man who was greedy and then got hit by a rock, serves him right.!!

    Do the science and stop being lazy.

    Comment by Steve — January 30, 2010 @ 6:08 am | Reply

  47. P.S. By now I think that Steve, and perhaps a few others, have read the full transcript (excerpted above) at http://theyfly.com/Israeli_Intrigues.html, where I also show corroboration for the specific genetic experiment having indeed been published in 2002.

    Having read the entire contact, an intelligent person is compelled to understand that Meier indeed is, and has long been, receiving information from extraterrestrial human beings.

    While this may have the effect of actually disturbing people with unreasonably large egos, who presume themselves to be the only ones suited for such contacts, as unlikely as they also presume them to be, sensible and truly intelligent people will want to support the broad dissemination of this information.

    Unfortunately, all evidence shows, this rules out a large majority of “scientists” and virtually all of the self-proclaimed skeptics.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 30, 2010 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

  48. I see that a post of Steve’s preceded mine, though it wasn’t visible to me when I just posted my P.S. above.

    It appears that it is Steve who is wanting to not only mix apples and oranges but miss the boat on a few things, so let’s see if we can clarify and prioritize them.

    I’ll start with the idea that I “assume that extraterrestrials are benevolent especially when they are SO judgmental”. Now I’ve never said that of course. I’ve only stated and stood behind the information from this particular source, which leads us to a more important point. I’ve also never had a problem with being “judgmental”, providing the judgment is not false, inaccurate, etc.

    I am unambiguously presenting, and supporting, (a large part of) the information in the context of it coming from extraterrestrial human beings. So before offering selective, glib and not necessarily accurate criticisms/comments, let’s come to grips with the extraterrestrial element of the claim.

    As I’ve said before, either Meier himself is a master of a few dozen highly specific skills and fields of knowledge for which there is no evidence, or he’s being advised by what David Froning referred to as “very knowledgeable scientists”. In that light, I am unaware of any evidence pointing to any terrestrial scientists, nor have any come forward.

    Since I mention several examples of ironclad copyrighted, preemptively published, scientifically accurate information here http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html, we need to credibly explain how Meier could possibly be the source of this information (and lots more) – not theoretically but accurately, with substantiation for such explanations.

    After all, Steve wants me to be scientific and not lazy, so I invite him to lead by example. Then we can address how related the various issues may be, how accurate other specifics in the Meier information are, etc.

    But since this is essentially a forum for skeptics, and skepticism about claims of contact with extraterrestrials is more than acceptable to me (I am also intensely disliked in the so-called “UFO community” for pointing out that NONE of the so-called contactees have any evidence at all to support their claims) I say we now focus on determining the origin of the information in question. By that I mean, specifically, the volumes of information said to be from extraterrestrials and conveyed to Meier and to which I refer.

    Let’s start there.

    Comment by Michael Horn — January 30, 2010 @ 1:11 pm | Reply

  49. I believe Billy Meier has been proven to be a fake. Ive seen pictures of his garbage bin which have been measured up against his ufo pictures – they are exactly the same size and shape.

    Comment by Aussie news — February 1, 2010 @ 4:20 am | Reply

  50. Michael

    I have no doubt the information is from extraterrestrials. But by pointing out errors in ‘their’ statements we can determine their objectives. I am not “offering selective, glib and not necessarily accurate criticisms/comments” I am giving examples of innacurate statements… like cities cause earthquakes or overpopulation is causing climate change. Why are they making statements like this?

    “Really, why should any more advanced beings bother with stupid creatures like us?”

    Very good question. The answer is that we have something that they don’t have. They don’t understand how we got it or where we got it from but thay want it. The fact of the matter is (sit down for this) is that ‘they’ are not very bright. We are slowly developing our intelligence over thousands of years and they don’t understand how we do it…. and they don’t like it. It threatens their supremacy. Remember “the total destruction was caused by the megalomaniac and crazy God”. That’s just about right.

    So that is about it really. They have been around (Earth) for tens of thousands of years and watching our development. A bit like the way Microsoft keep an eye on Google. But are they trying to help us.. No.

    As for the science, like I said they are not very bright, but you are.

    Comment by Steve — February 1, 2010 @ 5:41 am | Reply

  51. I think I’ll leave you with a couple of thoughts.

    First, it’s obvious that the skeptics who thought they had an easy mark with Meier ended up way over their heads. One of the most obvious, overlooked ironies is that people are so incredulous at the idea that his prophecies and predictions are so impeccably accurate. Let’s take the original subject, Apophis, for example.

    What they “believe” in instead are the…predictions from scientists, who are admittedly clueless as to what EXACTLY will occur. Everything for them is a matter of ever changing probabilities. They just don’t know but find themselves incapable of forming those simple little words, i.e. “I don’t know.”

    On the contrary, the Meier material is full of the widest variety of specific, prophetically accurate scientific and world event related information, as anyone who’s taken the hint and actually started to research has found out. Of course the once again glib “‘they’ are not very bright” is so far from the truth that it almost doesn’t bear comment. Got ell that to David Froning. And the rest of the comments show an equal lack of comprehension; read the 251st Contact (Contact 251) document at my site for areal overview of 22 million years plus of human life.

    As for the matter of human responsibility for the present and coming disasters, it indeed rests with us to the largest degree. When we place huge structures with far too much weight where the earth isn’t meant to support them, we do indeed get earthquakes, etc.: http://www.theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm

    And because we’ve sucked so much of the petroleum and natural gas out of the planet, which serve as the buffering for the tectonic plates, increased frequency and intensity of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are becoming more the order of the day. If one can’t understand how an ever increasing number of human and animal organisms are polluting the environment and contributing to the causative factors behind unnatural, accelerated climate change, it’s just symptomatic of human ignorance, which is already demonstrably at epidemic levels.

    There’s nothing personal in these comments, we are all in this together and are contributors to our collective suicide. But the ubiquitous deterioration of thinking skills, coupled with the relentless saturation of media “news”, pointless politics, irrelevant entertainment, sports…and the inadequate pronouncements of scientists who are, because of competition, forced to publish and publish as much as they can, is simply beyond depressing for anyone who hasn’t succumbed to the down-dumbing.

    Comment by Michael Horn — February 1, 2010 @ 11:24 am | Reply

    • And with “impeccably accurate” – which even that Apophis thing isn’t if name and dates were only given after astronomers’ discovery –, you also mean something like “predicting” an earthquake for a specific day in an area where there’s a quake almost every day (or for a month in a lesser active region with about a quake per month), I assume.

      Or “predicting” in 1978 that a space telescope that has been in its planning stages at least since 1972 and governmentally approved 1977 would be up in orbit in 10-15 years – yeah, no normal human being could have said that without extraterrestrial help!! Not.

      (Examples taken from http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies/prophecies.htm – didn’t find the original texts for the relevant “contacts”, so I couldn’t check them in more detail (such as possible quake magnitudes) than the short items on that page.)

      Comment by cimddwc — February 1, 2010 @ 12:15 pm | Reply

    • Oh, I forgot another one I looked up: “Nuclear accident in Russia during the third week of March: occurred March 27, 1992”

      Ignoring that March 27 is the 4th week – well, Greenpeace lists 17 nuclear accidents in Russia in the first half of 1992, and 11(!) in Dec 1991. And I’m sure at least some of them were in the (Swiss) press at that time. So in early 1992, I’d have picked Russia for such a prediction, too.

      Comment by cimddwc — February 1, 2010 @ 12:26 pm | Reply

  52. As I have previously stated, skeptics will constantly state that “Meier’s pictures are a hoax, so he is a hoax”. After a person first reads that they become less interested in Meier’s information. However, if you take the time to read what is being published, thanks to Meier, FIGU, and Michael Horn, you’ll learn that his predictions/prophecies are not as vague as presumed. However, no one lives by predictions/prophecies, instead of man-kind being preventive, they will wait till the last moment to change. I don’t think all these predictions/prophecies are published so that we as humans can witness these horrific events, but to prevent these from happening. People who are against, let me ask you this, are you waiting till Apophis will strike earth or are you hoping that scientist are correct and say it won’t?

    Comment by George — February 1, 2010 @ 12:24 pm | Reply

    • People who are against, let me ask you this, are you waiting till Apophis will strike earth or are you hoping that scientist are correct and say it won’t?

      That’s an, erm, odd kind of dichotomy. I certainly trust scientists’ results – especially when confirmed by a larger number of them – about the course of asteroids and, don’t forget that, possible actions to change that course should it be necessary much more than I trust a guy claiming extraterrestrial contacts making uselessly vague or general predictions (see above) to fool blind believers who call everyone else ignorant and want them to do research about the validity of the predictions that they quite obviously failed to do themselves completely or at least objectively. (And yes, this includes Michael Horn.)

      Comment by cimddwc — February 1, 2010 @ 12:39 pm | Reply

  53. “Uselessly vague or general predictions”?

    Oh.

    • 115th Contact, October 19, 1978: Io the most volcanically active body in the solar system, also that Europa was ice encrusted, Jupiter had rings

    Corroborated March 5, 1979: NASA’s Voyager 1 probe discovered the rings of Jupiter

    Corroborated March 12, 1979: NASA announced “most important discovery of the mission” that Io is the most volcanically active body in the solar system and that Europa is covered in ice—five months after Meier published this information.

    • 29th Contact, July 7, 1975 Venus information: surface temperature, atmospheric pressure, composition and percentage of gases in atmosphere, wind velocities, in addition to actual origin of Venus and other details that may or may not yet be known

    • 31st Contact, July 17, 1975 Venus information: coloration and thickness of cloud cover, crater-covered landscape, mountains of varying heights, etc.

    Corroborated: October 1975 and August 1976, confirmed by probes from the USSR and USA respectively.

    Corroborated: February 1981; USGS [US Geological Survey] was producing a topographical map of Venus which, as discovered by the investigative team, further confirmed the details Meier had published five years earlier.

    • 45th Contact, February 25, 1976:
    Semjase (Meier’s extraterrestrial female contactor) warned him that our extraction of petroleum and natural gas from the Earth, the damming of waters and construction of huge cities are major factors contributing to increased earthquake/volcanic activity.

    Corroborated: June 27, 1990, in The Good Life newspaper (now defunct), Los Angeles: “Earthquakes, Oil Interact”.
    Also: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29015900/
    Reservoir dam may have triggered China quake
    Scientists say finding suggests human activity played a role in the disaster

    • July 8, 1976 Mars information re discovery of water, primitive life forms and hostile nature of environment, scooped NASA’s discoveries of July and August 2008…by 32 years

    • 1978, 1992:
    In his book, Existing Life in the Universe, Meier stated that there are two small planetary bodies outside Pluto’s orbit; he called them Trans-Pluto and Uni, and said scientists will discover them in the not-too-distant future.

    Corroborated: July 3, 2001 and October 7, 2002, the BBC reported that scientists have discovered a new planet beyond Pluto.
    In the same book, in 1978 Meier predicted the forthcoming discovery, and subsequent naming, of a comet that would be called Toutatis. In this same book he gave additional, subsequently verified information about a number of comets.

    • 251st Contact, February 3, 1995:
    This contact contains startling information regarding technological developments such as hybrid warriors created by mixing human and pig DNA. People will have biochips attached to their nerve endings, and Meier warned of ominous biochipping with links to Deep Space Platform satellites and supercomputer.

    Corroborated: Human–pig DNA experiments have begun in the last several years; people are starting to get “chipped”.

    Still speculative: Creation of half-human/half-machine beings, clones and androids; discoveries that conclusively confirm existence of previous human life on Mars; rectification of the “ageing” and “aggression” genes; Plejaren warnings of deep-impact scenario, and need for a defence system for incoming objects.

    • The 5,100 Year-Old Iceman: While the information on the 5,100 year-old iceman is not astronomical in nature, it is another ironclad example of Meier publishing very unique, specific, accurate information well in advance of “official discovery”. Meier is told of the Iceman before discovery is made but, more importantly, what caused his death 5-10 years before “official” discoveryhttp://theyfly.com/newsflash91/5100_year_old_man.htm

    • Meier: “The climate warms ever faster, whereby the snowfall is also absent ever more frequently in the deeper sites, while the Earth’s polar ice masses, as well as the glaciers melt ever faster, which leads to this: that by the year 2100, in some cases, the water of the seas will rise up to 160 centimeters (5′3″). Forceful natural changes have become unstoppable…” (Orignally from Ptaah, November 18, 2006.)

    Corroborated: ScienceDaily (Dec. 8, 2009) — A new scientific study warns that sea level could rise much faster than previously expected. By the year 2100, global sea level could rise between 75 and 190 centimetres, according to a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    • Meier (2008): “…in only 45 to 50 more years the Earth, all countries and humanity, will be confronted with 200 million environmental refugees.”

    Corroborated: (CNN) – “A new kind of refugee is on the rise. And by 2050, there could be as many as 200 million of them…”

    • MEIER: Regarding melting of glaciers from 1964: “Glaciers melt away worldwide just as do the masses of ice of the Arctic and Antarctic. The world’s climate rapidly warms which leads to monstrous revolutions in the climate which bring with them great waves of heat and cold, blasts of fire as well as droughts, floods, snowstorms and hailstorms.”

    Corroborated: Swiss glaciers melting faster than ever before: study
    ZURICH (Reuters) – Switzerland’s glaciers shrank by 12 percent over the past decade, melting at their fastest rate due to rising temperatures and lighter snowfalls, a study by the Swiss university ETH showed Monday.

    See also: http://theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm

    Comment by Michael Horn — February 1, 2010 @ 5:59 pm | Reply

    • I don’t have the time for a detailed reply now, but, well, apart from many of these looking rather like “educated guesses” by someone reading news and magazines on these topics than surprising prophecies that can *only* have come from ETs:

      Do you have anything to reply to the specific things that I mentioned in my 12:15 and 12:26pm comments? Any refutation of what I found there? Or do you simply insist on still calling these pseudo-predictions “irrefutable evidence” for super-human knowledge and rather try to move the target away from these obvious flaws in your and Meier’s arguments?

      Comment by cimddwc — February 2, 2010 @ 1:33 am | Reply

  54. What I am really trying to get at, is lets be preventive instead of reactive. If you feel Meier’s material is not sufficient enough, then believe who you want. Wasn’t the point of this article to acknowledge the fact that there will be an asteroid that will appear in the future? To myself, prophecies are designed for us to be preventive.

    Comment by George — February 2, 2010 @ 11:01 am | Reply

  55. Re: “I don’t have the time for a detailed reply now”

    Answer: Make time if it’s important to you. If not, don’t. I’ve spent over 30 years and your amateurish “educated guesses” comment is a bad guess in itself…and one that I’ve heard from other lazy, self-assured people who simply haven’t done any homework.

    It’s funny how the skeptics approach this, prejudicially already assuming it’s some “obvious” little “hoax” (now 68 years strong, of course) and they’re going to point it out. So the first mark of their transparent ignorance and arrogance is usually some dismissive nonsense, such as the profound “challenge” above.

    Oh yeah, since you would “have picked Russia for such a prediction, too” as well as the telescope info, please show us…just where you DID predict it? Not asking too much, is it?

    Not surprisingly, many of these “challenges” come from anonymous types who use initials, etc. instead of their names – while some who put initials after their names are equally clueless. I’ve got a long list of ’em.

    So trust that the laundry list of documented “hits” includes no “educated guess”, which you’d know if you…educated yourself.

    And as George has attempted to communicate through the thick, know-it-all heads here, if you prefer being “too smart” to take the warning seriously, to even want to encourage preventive action, well, maybe the gene pool will move on without you…and unfortunately without lots of other good people because those who SHOULD know better, and who SHOULD want to do something about this are simply…”too smart” to do so.

    Additionally, if you only realized that most of what you think you “know”, historically, can’t be proved and a lot of what you think you “know” scientifically may be corrections of previously erroneous information, may be subject to later correction, and/or may just be scientific…”predictions” (by people whose collective accuracy is nowhere near that of the Plejaren/Meier), you might pry open your closed mind and return to critical, objective thinking and the search for the truth.

    Comment by Michael Horn — February 2, 2010 @ 12:55 pm | Reply

  56. P.S. As for “I’d have picked Russia for such a prediction, too” and regarding the telescope info “yeah, no normal human being could have said that without extraterrestrial help!!” Why don’t you help us out here and show us just exactly…where you DID predict the info?

    And exactly what SPECIFIC predictions would you like to go on record with now?

    Not asking too much, is it?

    Comment by Michael Horn — February 2, 2010 @ 1:01 pm | Reply

    • I’m not the one here who’s trying to convince people of having prophetic abilities. But alright, I’ll make two predictions just for fun:

      1) Someone reading this will have to pee tomorrow morning.

      And on a more serious note (and totally unrelated):

      2) There will be a severe accident on the Autobahn (yes, I’m German) around here involving a truck, causing death and destruction.

      While #1 is about as obvious as “there will be an earthquake (even if just a mild one) in California at any given day”, for #2 I’d keep reading the news and wait until there’s an accident that fits. (Anyone see the analogy with the Apophis story?)

      Does that make me a prophet? No. This is just a matter of probability and time.

      Do the aforementioned earthquake/Hubble/nuclear predictions make Meier a prophet? No. But since you spent so many years: did you find a way to explain – logically, rationally – why you think these predictions (and we’re only talking about these few for now) are worth anything, are more specific than mine, are real prophecies? I doubt that.

      It’s funny how the skeptics approach this, prejudicially already assuming it’s some “obvious” little “hoax” […] So trust that the laundry list of documented “hits” includes no “educated guess”, which you’d know if you…educated yourself.

      No, I don’t simply trust. You know, given the huge number of UFO hoaxers and false fortunetellers/prophets out there, it’s very hard to not be prejudiced against the next one (even though it’s an old one, but I hadn’t heard much about him, if anything, before).

      But, well, if I actually do educate myself a little, even if it’s just in Wikipedia, about, say, this space telescope thing and find that the plans were there way before Meier “predicted” the launch (and, by the way, your “impeccable” prophet didn’t get the year exactly right: 1990 isn’t “at end of the 1980s”) – well, if already the easy-to-research predictions immediately fail necessary criteria for “real prophecy”, the whole thing doesn’t look like anything worth spending a lot more time on.

      You know, most would-be prophets really like predicting things that are very likely to happen anyway – like earthquakes in certain areas (take the Solomon Islands area if you need a reliable magnitude 4.5 or 5), election winners (same as early poll results), sports event winners (that are favorites already), … – because that’s an easy way to impress those that are easily impressed. Selling these non-prophecies as real evidence is either self-delusion or fraud. (And no, I’m not accusing you of fraud, I really believe that you believe that all.)

      PS: Yeah, I’m using an odd nickname here (and elsewhere), but my real name’s only two clicks away (or one click and a long scroll) for anyone interested. But feel free to use this as an excuse for, well, whatever…

      Comment by cimddwc — February 2, 2010 @ 2:08 pm | Reply

      • Ditto for me (oh, and I fixed your end-blockquote tag) … it’s amazing that people can’t seem to find me when at the top of every page on the side column there’s an “About” link.

        Comment by astrostu206265 — February 2, 2010 @ 3:38 pm

  57. ok for your predictions

    #1. if someone will have to pee tomorrow, then he/she will be preventive and approach the bathroom.

    #2. I’m sure it’s common sense that there will be a chance at an accident on the autobahn, so people drive knowing that and will be preventive = no one drives just to cause an accident.

    You are just clarifying that people dont live by prophecies and predictions anymore, although they did.
    A silly comeback attempt, but good try.

    your predictions are unlike Meier’s and anyone can state that

    Comment by George — February 2, 2010 @ 2:16 pm | Reply

    • Yes, people’s preventive influence is big in my “predictions” (well, you can’t prevent having to pee, but anyway) – but that’s not the point. Nor is that “people don’t live by prophecies anymore”. Point is, as I mentioned, the probability (over an unspecified time in case of #2) of these events and that they are useless as evidence for real prophetic abilities – as are those of Meier’s predictions that I mentioned.

      Comment by cimddwc — February 2, 2010 @ 2:50 pm | Reply

  58. Let me ask you, have you read any of Meier’s material? Most skeptics will only choose to read certain materials of his, and when asked that same question, the response is always, “I have no interest”. But why would you read any of his materials if you have no interest in the first place? If you knew something bad were to happen tomorrow, you’d change that fact to prevent it from happening, correct? This is the same case as his predictions but instead of tomorrow, it’s years down the line. But if you knew something bad were to occur years down the line, wouldn’t you yourself want to change that? However, as i stated in my previous post, people don’t live by predictions anymore they live day to day in the hopes that everything goes well.

    Comment by George — February 2, 2010 @ 3:05 pm | Reply

    • I had an interest in the particular alleged Apophis “prediction.” Hence I spent over 2 hours looking into it. What I found I posted in the follow-up post to this one (still amazes me that Horn has not replied there). But you are correct – “I have no interest” in looking at others. Why should I waste time – when Horn so clearly presents the Apophis “prediction” as valid, and I have conclusively shown that it is not – spending hours and hours looking into the others? He presented his case for one, I looked into it, and found nothing but a retrodiction to a vague prediction decades earlier.

      Comment by astrostu206265 — February 2, 2010 @ 3:41 pm | Reply

  59. For Mr. initials, if you have the time and inclination to play dumb then be my guest.

    Meier was told many, many things in the transcripts. When I first started culling information from these English language translations I included things like the earthquake warnings, etc., which were often told to him conversationally.

    It neither makes them wrong, nor the most important of all things that he was told. However, you chose to focus on them because for you to actually dispute the (even more important) ones that are in published, copyrighted books and documents before they occurred would somehow threaten you…rather than provoke the more admirable stimulation of intellectual curiosity.

    You are at a disadvantage because all of this has been extremely well documented and facetious “challenges” such as yours have not only been dismissed for the lazy exercises in intellectual dishonesty that they are but become classic examples of same.

    Indeed don’t “trust’…just don’t be so transparently lazy and defensive. And since the huge body of information, some 25,000+ pages, is in…German, all the more the pity that the “proof’ you’re looking for is so easily accessible, which seems to make it perfectly safe from your non-prying eyes.

    As stated before, “Since I mention several examples of ironclad copyrighted, preemptively published, scientifically accurate information here http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html, we need to credibly explain how Meier could possibly be the source of this information (and lots more) – not theoretically but accurately, with substantiation for such explanations.”

    Once again, for the think headed, Meier first published the info on the Red Meteor in 1981, in a copyrighted English language book in 2001, confirmed as Apophis by Ptaah in 2008.

    It’s coming and, if it’s up to geniuses like these guys, it will slam into the earth and wipe out millions of human beings.

    Now, again, ironclad copyrighted proof of Meier’s prophetic accuracy are easily found here:

    http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html

    http://theyfly.com/articles/WILL_HUMANITY_WAKE_%20UP%20.htm

    http://theyfly.com/Israeli_Intrigues.html (this one for the spinach genes info…which I guess none of the geniuses here predicted…for some strange reason)

    …and in the source material for all of the above noted, specific predictions.

    So, if there are no Plejaren, then Meier is simply a super genius.

    How embarrassingly stupid to not be able to comprehend this.

    But this is what separates second rate wannabes and gripers from people like Froning, Hahnekamp, Deardorff, etc. – who had the intelligence, curiosity and discernment to look, think and draw informed conclusions.

    My suggestion to George, which I will also take myself, is to leave these folks to their belief systems. Anyone who happens upon this information and who is curious will be able to draw their own informed conclusions.

    I will reiterate, one last time, that David Froning, a rather well respected scientist, invested sufficient time and ample intelligence in determining that Meier was being advised by very “knowledgeable scientists”. I guarantee that none of either his or their caliber will be found here.

    Comment by Michael Horn — February 2, 2010 @ 5:33 pm | Reply

    • Well, you are listing these less important prophecies under “proof beyond reasonable doubt”, I easily find reasonable doubt, and all you got to reply to such a little “challenge”, as you put it, is to say “dismissed as lazy exercise before” and “there’s a lot more that’s more important”. And suppose I’d find more doubt in some of those, you just, without ever admitting errors on your behalf, repeat the game? Not convincing. (And neither new.)

      Yes, this doesn’t make the “prophecies” wrong – just, as I mentioned a few times, useless as prophecies because they’re extremely likely and/or retrodictions (as Astrostu said about Apophis). And since you don’t seem to recognize that, there is “reasonable doubt” that you did your research over the decades sufficiently open-mindedly and with falsifiability in mind. And it’s not too audacious of me to say that even once respectable scientists fall into such traps.

      Alright, you keep living in your belief system, I in mine. Just wondering (not really) which is closer to observable reality – you know, scientific method and stuff…

      Comment by cimddwc — February 3, 2010 @ 1:44 am | Reply

  60. Michael,
    I agree, there’s plenty of information in regards to Meier’s case. We’ll just let the close minded handle this situation as seen fit.

    Comment by George — February 2, 2010 @ 7:12 pm | Reply

  61. […] to directly address the refutations I gave of the alleged prognostication of asteroid Apophis. The first post on the subject contains the bulk of Horn’s comments which simply dodge the issue and point to other alleged […]

    Pingback by How Could a Simple One-Armed Farmer … (A Bit More on Billy Meier / Michael Horn) And What Scientific Falsification Means « Exposing PseudoAstronomy — February 3, 2010 @ 5:47 pm | Reply

  62. Semi astro , sortof astro , kind of astro , make believe astrophysicists who have a web blog .

    Mr. Horn gave you his time ,skill , information , details , evidence/ examples , and the benefit of the doubt that proof withstanding , you planet primitives would either come to see the light on the issue , and get off of your childish prejudice against something that you made your mind up about in the 1950’s .

    The problem is , that your underdevelopement as a human being has with it an addiction ; that you hold onto as jealously as any 5th grader who encounters a child of another race who starts school ( in the 60’s in Mississippi)and will not and can not release , like the blind adherance to any wrng thing that the guilty will defend as if it’s defence will change the facts to adjust to their stance .

    Your comment in which you invent an ncreative rediculous name to discredit Mr. Meier with , reveals your true nature . That of a very old adolescent , who mistakenly thinks that the world is made of decrepid beings who harbor resentments aganst natural change and thin that they have a large audience who respond favorably to your out-dated way of thinking .

    My advice to you is the same as would give any stranger , friend or foe , no different . Wait until 2029 and look back on this short engagement with those who gave you a fair warning , and blame yourself for whatever your stupididty has paid you .

    Mark Campbell .

    Comment by Mark Campbell — February 4, 2010 @ 12:30 am | Reply

  63. I am afraid is doesn’t matter what attacks one makes against any individual, the fact of the matter remains that anyone who believes that the weight of a building can cause even a shallow earthquake (2-3km below surface) is simply gullable and lacking in any knowledge of tectonics. Michael Horn simply does not wish to analyse anything. He is simply collating information and accepting it. It makes no difference if some of it is correct (or turned out to be correct) if any of it is wrong then all of it, (including the ‘enevitable’ Apophis impact) is questionable.

    The problem with the Meier/Horn supporters is that they don’t really know they just believe and attack anyone who doesn’t. That is not science it’s dogma.

    Please explain how the weight of a building causes an earthquake. If you cannot then that is why you ‘know’ that in 2029 Apophis will impact….ie you don’t really. Do you? Go on admit it.

    Comment by Steve — February 4, 2010 @ 5:59 am | Reply

  64. After reading some of the sources to which Mr. Horn has refferred, I see good cause for scepticism. Blind faith, as exhibited by Mr. Horn, is NOT scientific proof and therefore his input is actually irrelevent to a scientific discussion.

    Good science does not shy away from scrutiny, it embraces it and furthermore, good science has the grace to admit when it is wrong.

    There are a number of problems with Meier’s claims and I’ll just point out two examples which serve to illustrate my point.

    Firstly, what is the agenda of the Plajerans? Meier appears to disrespect his relationship with them by attepting to break a secrecy rule. In the article http://theyfly.com/news2005/jan06/jan06.htm#skeptics, at the section Skeptics Demote Fellow Skeptic!, MH talks of an incident regarding a disappearing letter. Why would the Plajerans go to the trouble of warning one man of impending disaster and then prohibiting him from producing evidence that would cause people to sit up and take heed and would make other predictions more credible? Are the Plajerans playing some sick game where they force Meier to live the life of the Mythological Cassandra? Or perhaps they are making Meier perform as Moses; and did they intend for Mr. Horn to be a John the Baptist, the recruitment manager? Er… no! It can’t be that. That would violate the secrecy rule. Oh, but the Plajerans have forgiven Meier and are still telling him secrets. Either that, or the secrecy rule was dumped.

    So, that confuses me. What do the Plajerans want? What are they trying to achieve?

    The other thing was, in the article http://theyfly.com/Israeli_Intrigues.html and after a great many years of communicating with Plajerans, Meier, who exhibits a good knowledge of Vesuvius AND despite the fact that he has had a similar conversation on the same subject in the previous discussion with Quetzel, has to ask: What is a pyroclastic flow?

    To be honest, I read that particular dialogue and felt as if I was reading something by Terry Pratchet.

    It just doesn’t add up.

    Oh, and of course faster than light travel through space is not possible.

    Comment by himnextdoor — February 17, 2010 @ 10:13 pm | Reply

  65. I thought billy mMier was proven to be a fake? Or am i wrong?

    Comment by News — November 24, 2010 @ 12:18 am | Reply

  66. BTW – I think Steven Hawking said faster then light speed travel was possible.

    You can travel at near the speed of light – but you do this in a gravitational field – the field will push you faster on top of the speed your already traveling, so to someone outside the field your traveling faster then light?

    Comment by News — November 24, 2010 @ 12:20 am | Reply

  67. Mr. Billy should be running this planet. He is the smartest man here on earth, we should use his knowledge to help ourselves out
    of this mess we call a life. Most of the world is hungry or in pain, or strife.
    When will we learn?, to quote Mr. Billy.

    Good Luck to you Billy! Help us all you can!

    Comment by BP — December 7, 2010 @ 8:59 pm | Reply

  68. […] of the best investigations of a Billy Meier prophecy came from Stuart Robbins of the Bad Science blog, who decided to do a thorough analysis of Michael Horn’s claim that Meier had predicted […]

    Pingback by Did ANY of the Billy Meier Predictions Ever Come True? | Top Secret Writers — December 9, 2013 @ 12:02 pm | Reply


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